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  1. #11
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Even then it's imaginary. Damned thing says reserve note.
    True, I thought about putting a comment about the irony of mentioning cash in my post, but decided not to bother.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Which can easily be taken away, since it's all just electronic bits in a computer or flammable paper in a file.
    Hence his actual point; until you're holding it yourself, it's not really secure.

    Jeez... Thinking dominant my ass.
    The only legal claim you can make with a stock is for a share of the company's assets. Period, end of story. What a stock trades for, on the market, has no legal bearing in this sense.

    My point was that since real wealth is tangible (land, food, etc.), no real wealth was lost yesterday. No homes burnt down. No crops were lost. All losses were imaginary, market speculation.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Which can easily be taken away, since it's all just electronic bits in a computer or flammable paper in a file.
    Hence his actual point; until you're holding it yourself, it's not really secure.

    Jeez... Thinking dominant my ass.
    If you think about it that way, anything can be taken away. The point is this:

    1) You put in time to work to make money. This time that you put in to do work creates wealth, which you receive your compensation from. Since you created wealth, you receive wealth in turn, which is your money. Therefore, time=money=wealth.
    2) You use money to buy security. Therefore, time=money=wealth=security.
    3) Security depreciates in value. Now, your time=security-depreciation=wealth-depreciation.

    So, to the security's depreciation, you have lost wealth. Same as if a security appreciates, you have gained wealth.

    This understanding of wealth, net worth, securities, and all of that, is the business of us people that actually understand finance.

    It's basic finance, people. There is no imaginary or real vs. not real here. Just the numbers, and what they mean.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  4. #14
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    I wouldn't say that money=wealth. You could make $500,000 a year but if you spend $500,001 a year you do not have wealth.
    I don't wanna!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    I wouldn't say that money=wealth. You could make $500,000 a year but if you spend $500,001 a year you do not have wealth.
    What if you spend it on Hobo soup?

  6. #16
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    I wouldn't say that money=wealth. You could make $500,000 a year but if you spend $500,001 a year you do not have wealth.
    That depends entirely on what you spend it on.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #17
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    There's no real wealth lost, since stock is just a claim on company assets.
    Right. Essentially it means that the depreciation of stock value has caused us to lose $1,000,000,000,000. It's the same thing that happened with the housing market. The money's just gone.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    Right. Essentially it means that the depreciation of stock value has caused us to lose $1,000,000,000,000. It's the same thing that happened with the housing market. The money's just gone.
    And the same pool of goods are out there to be purchased.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #19
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    This is entirely too painful...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Which can easily be taken away, since it's all just electronic bits in a computer or flammable paper in a file.
    Hence his actual point; until you're holding it yourself, it's not really secure.

    Jeez... Thinking dominant my ass.
    Nothing is secure. You could have it stolen. People could refuse to barter with whatever you have defined as wealth.

    I get paid dividends to my account. I transfer it to my bank account. I go to the atm. I withdraw money. I trade money for food.

    Tada! Little bits bought me dinner!

    Money tends to be more secure in bits than it does in tangible wealth. Or, do you carry around hundreds of thousands in assets in your pocket? Under your bed?

    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    I wouldn't say that money=wealth. You could make $500,000 a year but if you spend $500,001 a year you do not have wealth.
    Well, no, because you spent it. You'd have to keep some in order to have money... or wealth. Money is a store of wealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    And the same pool of goods are out there to be purchased.
    Only so long as you can trade something for them. See, the loss of capital means things don't get produced as much anymore, generally speaking. Means less money is going to shareholders. Means the company is less profitable (typically).

    That's the point of an economic contraction - less goods for everyone.

  10. #20
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    And the same pool of goods are out there to be purchased.
    How so?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

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