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  1. #181
    mountain surfing nomadic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I'll take unemployment and a year or two of financial uncertainty over bailouts and almost-certain inflation that will lead to more problems later.
    while debt in general is a bad thing, and i hate credit cards, if you have been following monetary policy of the United States of America then you would have already seen that the past 4 years, the US has been printing money like no tomorrow, and inflation has been rather low. Its a remarkable phenomenom that old school economists cannot explain. That is why its time for a new school of economic thought.

  2. #182
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modern Nomad View Post
    while debt in general is a bad thing, and i hate credit cards, if you have been following monetary policy of the United States of America then you would have already seen that the past 4 years, the US has been printing money like no tomorrow, and inflation has been rather low. Its a remarkable phenomenom that old school economists cannot explain. That is why its time for a new school of economic thought.
    If economic growth is steady, it would make sense that printing more money wouldn't be too bad for inflation. If the economy were to get REALLY bad, printing more money may temporarily make things look better, but it would be bad in the long run, especially for the working poor. If you are already at a marginal income (i.e., just getting by), high inflation eats away at your purchasing power, and you will soon be sub-marginal. Eventually, being on public assistance becomes a better deal than working 40-50 hours a week at a job that isn't paying the bills.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #183
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_LWQQrpSc4"]Duck Tales Inflation Lesson[/YOUTUBE]

    this is uh... more something for the laymen out there. I'm pretty certain most of the folks posting in this thread already know this
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirilis View Post

    this is uh... more something for the laymen out there. I'm pretty certain most of the folks posting in this thread already know this
    I don't know whether to laugh my ass off because I remember seeing that as a kid, and it's soooo right on; or if I should cry because the people in power either don't even understand as much (or ignore) what a freaking Disney cartoon from the 90's understood .

  5. #185
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I'll take unemployment and a year or two of financial uncertainty over bailouts and almost-certain inflation that will lead to more problems later.
    We'll be seeing inflation, but it won't be caused by the bailout. However because of the world fuel situation we should expect significant inflation over the next few years anyway. This bailout won't cause inflation though. (I don't think most people understand what this bailout proposes.)

    On the other hand without the bailout we could be looking at another serious depression. Actually we might be looking at that anyway, but the bailout is a step in the right direction.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  6. #186
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    We'll be seeing inflation, but it won't be caused by the bailout. However because of the world fuel situation we should expect significant inflation over the next few years anyway. This bailout won't cause inflation though. (I don't think most people understand what this bailout proposes.)
    I think it might in the long run. Not letting the market punish bad investments and giving gigantic lines of credit should lead to more money circulating through the economy than we'd otherwise have. I also am not sure that you're correct about inflation being inevitable. A worldwide economic downturn would more likely bring about stagnation or deflation than inflation. Also, I know it's silly since everyone in developed or developing countries needs energy sources, but core inflation is measured without food and energy prices going into the calculation. They are far too volatile. One of the best things we could do for both food prices and energy prices is to stop subsidizing ethanol. It's literally starving poor people in the world.


    On the other hand without the bailout we could be looking at another serious depression. Actually we might be looking at that anyway, but the bailout is a step in the right direction.
    We're not at the perfect storm of thing that happened 1929-1933 to make a Great Depression. Our economy is more diversified, there is no Hawley-Smoot tariff, there is no major drought causing farm production to dry up, the Fed won't allow the money supply to contract significantly. It's probably going to be bad, but people must remember that the economy goes down occasionally.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #187
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I think it might in the long run. Not letting the market punish bad investments and giving gigantic lines of credit should lead to more money circulating through the economy than we'd otherwise have. I also am not sure that you're correct about inflation being inevitable. A worldwide economic downturn would more likely bring about stagnation or deflation than inflation. Also, I know it's silly since everyone in developed or developing countries needs energy sources, but core inflation is measured without food and energy prices going into the calculation. They are far too volatile. One of the best things we could do for both food prices and energy prices is to stop subsidizing ethanol. It's literally starving poor people in the world.
    I know that CPI doesn't use food or energy in its calculation, but there is no denying that people lose purchasing power when these have a big increase in price like they have lately. (FYI, I basically agree with you on ethanol.)

    We're not at the perfect storm of thing that happened 1929-1933 to make a Great Depression. Our economy is more diversified, there is no Hawley-Smoot tariff, there is no major drought causing farm production to dry up, the Fed won't allow the money supply to contract significantly. It's probably going to be bad, but people must remember that the economy goes down occasionally.
    I don't think it will be as bad as the thirties, but I think we are headed for our worst time since then. I'm forseeing worse than the 70's but not as bad as the 30's. That's still a pretty big gap in difference in terms of economic woe. I'd like to see the sting of this problem removed as much as possible.

    It's true that this bailout is letting people off the hook who have made bad decisions, but if they are made to face the consequences then a lot of other people will suffer too. I normally don't like bailouts, but when it comes to financial institutions I see an exception. When the banks go under then so does the rest of the economy. At this point we can't even be certain how many other financial institutions will collapse. I really don't want to see a huge chunk of our financial industry go under, and the rest of us with it.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  8. #188

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    Inflation is inevitable. Not just because of rising fuel costs, or Wall Street's collapse, but because of our enormous debt (from the right's ridiculous war) and the trade deficits caused by our increasingly LESS competitive companies in industries that we used to dominate.

    The reason we haven't felt the full effects of the Fed's irresponsible monetary expansion is because foreigners (China, Japan, Germany, Korea etc) are propping up the US dollar by buying our debt via treasury bonds.

    It's just a matter of time before the US dollar will no longer be standard for foreign Central banks to hold "in reserve" instead of gold (since we moved off Bretton Woods in 1971). Governments used to have gold reserves for this purpose (before the dollar replaced gold). This "fiat" system only works when the world views the dollar as good as gold. Which it obviously no longer is. Once they stop pegging their currencies to ours, there is nothing the FED or our government can do to stop inflation.

    The only real way is to have more competitive companies and to export more than we import (which isn't going to happen anytime soon). Our students get long summer vacation while they get one month. They (Japan, Korea, Taiwan etc) all learn calculus by 10th grade while only 6% of COLLEGE graduates here master it. They're kids want to be engineers. Our kids want to be rock stars and rappers and have a sense of entitlement that is absurd and unrealistic.

    We should have felt the inflationary pressures much earlier but we were artificially propped up by foreign banks buying our debt. Once they start dumping dollars because the inherent weakness in our economy, the devaluation will be accelerated and we will feel the effects of serious inflation soon enough.

    No one wants to lend money to a deadbeat who borrows money for antagonistic and vicious foreign policy. We're used to a lifestyle we haven't deserved for some time. Every single American has borrowed roughly $9,000 EACH from the Chinese alone. They live frugally, while we BORROW to heat and air condition massive homes, while driving gas guzzling SUVs in a world of depleting oil. World markets will correct this error in lifestyle allocation soon enough, and it's not going to be pretty.

  9. #189
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    It was fun while it lasted, though!

  10. #190
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    This is interesting (note the date).
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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