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  1. #511
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Earlier today I made a post in this thread and it occured to me that I posted only one side of the story. I was telling the story from the perspective of how stereotypical American would see this, because this is American forum. However I think I should now tell the perspective that is closer to what locals actually think. (and why there is such a silent majority, that actually hopes for the best)




    Yes, government took control over huge amount of economy but that is ok. Since the certain part of business elite is shiting on this country and it's people for decades and someone had to start cleaning this swamp before it is too late and demography is beyond repair. Enough is enough since those people not only that they are shiting on people but they are also brutally and systematically braking the laws, what gives government every right to step in and end the circus. It is true that Russians may take our oil industry but that is perhaps better than what Hungarians are doing and at least our oil rafineries will continue to work this way (since hungarians as owners want them closed, so that they can imposrt from their rafineries), plus since either way all the oil is Russian is origin perhaps fuel will be getting somewhat cheaper if the whole chain is under Russian control. Also it is in a way good that Russian banks entered the market since that greatly helped in lowering the interest rates that were artificially high due to combined effort of western banks. New anti-market laws forbid that you can take away the last real estate of the person who is in debt to you (what ends making of homeless people and lowers pressure on welfare state), plus now those laws are getting expanded into agriculture what should allow farmers to stay in business longer and allow them to reorganize at the face of strong international competition. The big bridge will probably be build by China but that is because they are so cheap and getting more of their tourists will result in economic growth. After some time I am again getting full government based health insurance that will be payed purely from taxes and I shouldn't have any extra costs regarding health expensess. The economy is growing at about 3% a year and now when the swamp and doubts are getting cleared and the money is comming from the east as well that can even speed up to 6%, especially since public debt is falling. Over the last decade or so completely new highway system was built, capital city just got brand new airport this while other air ports are expanded, there is mass repair of houses and apartment building that is driven through various social programs, a few new hospitals were build in my city by the governemnt recently, government is rearranging education system to make it more up to date (curriculum and infrastructure). There may be new war in Bosnia but someone needs to challange ISIS there, so if the west is not interested then the east is welcome to join and help cleaning this up.



    So are we going into hell or heaven as a country is actually subjective.
    Various western market principles are obviously getting challanged but most of the locals don't have a serious problem with that if it turns out that their lives are going to be better. After all big government is our traditional state of things. Democracy may suffer to some degree due to Eastern influence but we were never genuinely democratic place and therefore no one will trully cry over this. So these will be interesting times, espcially since Visegrad group is saying something that it will introduce extended membership positions. What basically means that ex eastern block will/could be getting togather again, since basically everyone here agrees that we don't want what we define as neoliberalism and destruction of welfare state, modern political correctness, mass idiocracy, right or left wing SJWs, mass imigration, etc. Since this is in contradiction with our cultures and desires. Even Austria is showing signs that it may be going east.



    I don't really have a time for this forum but things are fundamentally changing here, the most pro capitalist party fell apart since it came down to 1.5% support. Nationalist right just doesn't want to give away the country they love so much and left is trully disgusted by unlimited capitalism that exists in west right now. Even the Church rants against Capitalism and moral relativism of the west from time to time. So there is no basis that futher westernization should continue. Especially since Trump and his statements about NATO and general economc principles made many people to face their fears regarding Russia. Which just doesn't look that scary anymore if we consider into what the west is turning into.



    So, this is my version of "what is comming".

    See you.

  2. #512
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Continuation, since I am sorting out my thoughts. (even if I should be doing something else)




    The crisis is getting worse and worse and it came to the point that we can't go back even if we really really want to. So this is the end of the social order as we know it.
    Yesterday after the stocks of the fallen business empire were allowed to participate in the stockmarket in just one day their value fell for something like 80 to 90% for the companies inside of this big structure. However since this structure is one third of our market economy and it has huge impact on the rest of the economy since this is something like a "central hub" and main food supplier all of this is a big deal. Plus retirement funds are heavily involved in all of this, so that means that retirement systems that were already on the edge are now clearly in the red. Therefore this should be it, our economy has crashed even if politics and even public aren't fully aware of what just happened. However in the politics there is a huge mess, various top menagers were arrested for making up the numbers, the main CEO of the mega corporation is on the run and both international and EU arrest warrants have been made for him, although since today he over his lawers is suing the government for all kinds of things, politicians are pressing charges against each other, investigations are being started all over the place, various business people are pressing charges against politians for lying to the media. It is free for all since the system has crashed.




    Also the prime minister that is also the biggest EU advocate became most unpopular political figure quickly and it is very questionable if his administrations can survive all of this. Especially since his majority has already crashed a few months ago but he managed to scrap some weird coallition that has majority that has something like only 2 seats to spare before majority is lost. Plus reformed communists, far left anarchist and populist right and left are gaining in popularity. I mean all of this is very inconvinient for the main conservative party since they are the ones who made the foundation of this megalomanic business empire that has eventually swallowed the economy, especially since for decades there is the atmosphere that their party shenanigans will destroy this country, what is now proving to be the case. Although all mainstream parties have a part to blame in all of this. Therefore this is basically complete crash of political and economc system and just the other day IMF chairman was here again in "emergency visit", since liberal capitalism has crashed here. Both in the term of numbers and what people really think about our Capitalism.





    However this is where geopolitics is comming in to play.
    The catch is that this entire mess has involved plenty of loans from Russian state banks. Which already wanted to turn the failed loans into shares since through this they are basically taking over the food supply on the whole Balkans, since the mega corporation has spread across the region. So Croatian government has made the special law towards which it takes control over the fallen corporation since Russians have to be kept out of the picture at almost any cost. What is basically the plan that has failed since stocks have completely crashed in a single day. Plus you can't really sell this to the foreigners, because if you do you have basically sold the national economy and the main channel through which we export goods. On the other hand who on earth would want this corporation: top managers were arrested, CEO is international fugitive, government just made this pseudo nationalization in panic attack, the company is full of family members of politicians, taxation in this counrty is very high, numbers for the company have been falsificated for years and no one even knows how big are debts (but they are bigger than assets for sure), plus the main finance source are Russian state banks. Let's be honest, this could potentially be the most investor unfriendly corporation is the world right now. So it seem that the government will have to accept the fact that Russians won this one, especially since by market laws they have the full right to take the whole thing (but all of this is surely somewhat personal as well since current adminstration in my country is very pro-ukraine and it proposed many things that Russians didn't like). Plus since everyone here is broke Russians will surely buy the other debts shares and take full control. Also if Hunagarians sell Russians our oil industry that is it, they have full control over our country, especially since they may get politics as well. Since ex communists, far left and populists are gaining ground and the main conservative party in this scenario will probably overthrow the EU wing of the party and go in Orban-ish direction (which is our neighbour btw).





    However all of this has serious geopolitical consequences.
    Because with this the East has basically taken control over both Croatia and Hungary, what means that they made the wall between South-Eastern Europe and the rest of the continent. What means that the rest of Ex-Yugoslavia (where Russian influence is already strong), poor and corrupt Romania and Bulgaria, bankrupt Greece that will take any maningful deal and increasingly totalitarian Turkey are cut off from the rest of Europe. What means that building influence in them will be much more easy now. Plus with this it basically became impossible to build direct oil pipelines between Central Europe and Middle East, what is both strategic blow and big opportunity for Russian oil companies. Especially since Banks of Italy have been investing in my region and if they lose that investments they will surely fall over the edge and that places Euro as the currency into serious problems, plus many countries such as Italy, Spain, Austria, Germany, Poland and Netherlands are exporting plenty of goods to the Balkans due to weak local economy. However if Russians or their influence takes all of our brands and gives them new strength the imports are likely to suffer and that will hit all of the mentioned countries. Plus Slovenia also had similar mega corporate system as Croatia and they sold it to Croatia, therefore if Russians take control they get Slovenia as bonus, plus they will strenghten their influence through whole ex Yugoslavia and somewhat in Hungary. So Slovenia as of recently is also fighting against Russian takeover by suspending market rules (in Croatian part of bosnia similar laws are also being made). However for years China want's to buy basically the whole Croatia, but we refuse every time since we have our own plans. But with current events that option is now becoming something to be expected, especially since economic ties are getting stronger lately. Therefore if China gets into play the whole South-Eastern Europe can be "fliped" without too much effort. Plus I would not be surprised that Trump decides to exchange this part of Europe for North Korean nukes.



    The most bizzare thing in the whole story are western media, from which I haven't seen anything about any of this. I even wonder am I living in the same reality as they are, or they are just too scared to even open the topic of what is going in this part of Europe. Yes, there is a mess in Catalonia and that is a problem but there at least you don't have anti western elements in the story or complete socio political meltdowns. The funny thing is that not so long ago I was out in a night club that has video walls. On which during the party they started to show "the full might of North Korea", I think that was a Helloween related joke but the fact is that in these parts many didn't get over Communism our Communist era, or communist economy (due to neoliberalism and it's "unfriendly" doctrines). But to be honest this isn't the first time I see Communism related things on a Friday night.




    So .... Illiberal democracy, here we come.

  3. #513
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to the impeachment of Trump before his term ends, hopefully sometime in the next 1.5 years or worst case scenario, he fails to hold on for a second term. Once he's gone, the U.S. and the world can hold hands, hug and kiss again.

  4. #514
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    I'm looking forward to the impeachment of Trump before his term ends, hopefully sometime in the next 1.5 years or worst case scenario, he fails to hold on for a second term. Once he's gone, the U.S. and the world can hold hands, hug and kiss again.
    The next president will also have a clear mandate to recalibrate the entire system, because Trump and the GOP have shown how utterly broken it.

  5. #515
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    The next president will also have a clear mandate to recalibrate the entire system, because Trump and the GOP have shown how utterly broken it.
    Unfortunately, if Trump's impeached, the presidency falls to Pence. Not sure if he's capable of recalibration.

    Do you have any thoughts on Tom Steyer? He's divested himself from his businesses and is currently focused on philanthropic efforts, including taking out a $10M impeach Trump campaign ad that has resulted in his petition garnering over 1.5M signatures. It looks like he's setting up for a future political career.

    I like Elizabeth Warren. She strikes me as one of the more honest politicians and appears to honestly be looking out for the little guy.

  6. #516
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    Unfortunately, if Trump's impeached, the presidency falls to Pence. Not sure if he's capable of recalibration.

    Do you have any thoughts on Tom Steyer? He's divested himself from his businesses and is currently focused on philanthropic efforts, including taking out a $10M impeach Trump campaign ad that has resulted in his petition garnering over 1.5M signatures. It looks like he's setting up for a future political career.

    I like Elizabeth Warren. She strikes me as one of the more honest politicians and appears to honestly be looking out for the little guy.
    For those reasons, I prefer she stay where she is doing the most good. But I would not be against her as AG.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #517
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    Unfortunately, if Trump's impeached, the presidency falls to Pence. Not sure if he's capable of recalibration.
    I suspect he is, but in the wrong direction. May be worse than Trump in some respects. The best we can hope for now is "to kill the penalty" without too much damage, then try again next time.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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