User Tag List

First 1234513 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 517

  1. #21
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,569

    Default

    Militia, sovereign citizens, Freemen movements in Trump presidency | The Kansas City Star

    For years, Star reporter Judy L. Thomas has documented the ups, downs and shifts in the militia, Freemen and sovereign citizen movements — and their sporadic links to domestic terrorism. Now Steve Bannon, who gave a stage for the alt-right and its white nationalist brethren at Breitbart.com, is chief strategist to President Donald Trump as the various anti-government movements that have existed for years move to a new realm.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
    Likes Magic Poriferan, jcloudz, Floki liked this post

  2. #22
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,851

    Default

    There is not nearly enough discussion of the rapidly burgeoning right-wing militia and white supremacist organizations in the USA, which are quite frankly, a more probable and serious threat to the USA than Islamic extremists.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right
    Likes jcloudz, Floki liked this post

  3. #23
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    There is not nearly enough discussion of the rapidly burgeoning right-wing militia and white supremacist organizations in the USA, which are quite frankly, a more probable and serious threat to the USA than Islamic extremists.
    Apparently, law enforcement agrees and have for some time. Trump didn't cause it but he accelerated it. Many veterans, pissed, mentally ill and armed to the teeth. White supremacists, Christian extremists, organized criminals (because they don't recognize the government so they don't recognize the laws either) Sure, get rid of all the Muslims but we will still have this threat that has been around and getting stronger with little attention, for years.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/o...reat.html?_r=0
    Federal agency warns of radicals on right - Washington Times
    DHS report warns of domestic terror threat - CNNPolitics.com
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/u...lyst-says.html
    FBI — Sovereign Citizens: A Growing Domestic Threat to Law Enforcement

    In Sacramento, California, two sovereign-citizen extremists were convicted of running a fraudulent insurance scheme, operating a company completely outside of state insurance regulatory authorities. The men sold “lifetime memberships” to customers and promised to pay any accident claims against members. The company collected millions of dollars, but paid only small auto insurance claims and ignored large ones.4
    In Kansas City, Missouri, three sovereign-citizen extremists were convicted in a phony diplomatic credential scandal. They charged customers between $450 and $2,000 for a diplomatic identification card that bestowed “sovereign status,” supposedly to enjoy diplomatic immunity from paying taxes and from stops and arrests by law enforcement.5
    In Las Vegas, Nevada, four men affiliated with the sovereign-citizen-extremist movement were arrested by the Nevada Joint Terrorism Task Force on federal money laundering, tax evasion, and weapons charges. The undercover investigation revealed that two of the suspects allegedly laundered more than a million dollars and collected fees for their services.6
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
    Likes Totenkindly, Floki liked this post

  4. #24
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    1,287

    Default

    Just saw a couple photos of one of the victims.

    I don't want to be insensitive, but based strictly on physical profiling alone I'd say that poor guy had about a 300% greater chance of getting stabbed in the neck by any non-leftist than the average person. His name alone. Jesus. I doubt he had even the slightest clue he was in danger before it was too late.

    The left is calling him a hero, but getting yourself and one other person killed just to jail a dangerous person for a while isn't really worth it or heroic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    There is not nearly enough discussion of the rapidly burgeoning right-wing militia and white supremacist organizations in the USA, which are quite frankly, a more probable and serious threat to the USA than Islamic extremists.
    Well, they're a more probable and serious threat to leftists and muslims. The rest of us are pretty safe.

  5. #25
    Senior Member captain curmudgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    BIRD
    Enneagram
    631 sp
    Posts
    3,247

    Default

    I find it ironic how much of this thread is focused on defending or blaming one or another person or group of persons in this particular incident, and how little concern there is for this incident perhaps being, as the OP noted, an indication of things to come. But then again, most of you have the capability to apply such thought. You just don't because you're lazy and don't care about the bigger picture.

    FWIW, @Magic Poriferan and @ceecee seem to be the only ones touching on the actual issue here.
    Jarlaxle: fact checking this thread makes me want to go all INFP on my wrists

    "I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing."
    -Roger Waters

    ReadingRainbows: OMG GUYS
    ReadingRainbows: GUESS WHAT EXISTS FOR ME
    hel: fairies?
    Captain Curmudgeon: existential angst?


    Johari Nohari

    https://www.librarything.com/profile/wheelchairdoug

  6. #26
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    Yin
    Enneagram
    One sx/sp
    Posts
    13,851

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Apparently, law enforcement agrees and have for some time. Trump didn't cause it but he accelerated it. Many veterans, pissed, mentally ill and armed to the teeth. White supremacists, Christian extremists, organized criminals (because they don't recognize the government so they don't recognize the laws either) Sure, get rid of all the Muslims but we will still have this threat that has been around and getting stronger with little attention, for years.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/o...reat.html?_r=0
    Federal agency warns of radicals on right - Washington Times
    DHS report warns of domestic terror threat - CNNPolitics.com
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/u...lyst-says.html
    FBI — Sovereign Citizens: A Growing Domestic Threat to Law Enforcement
    Under the Obama administration the DOJ did take some nice steps toward identifying this, but certainly didn't go as far as one would hope. I've heard there was a lot of internal friction with trying to publish this kind of stuff, so it might have only been so politically viable. Never the less, it's obviously miles better than what we have now. The fox is guarding the hen house.

    Something else to this effect.

    Violence Caused by Far-Right Extremists Has Surpassed That Caused by Domestic Jihadists, Study Says

    EDIT:

    This also seems like a decent time to remind people of some classic info.


    How likely are foreign terrorists to kill Americans? The odds may surprise you


    According to a September 2016 study by Alex Nowrasteh at the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank, some 3,024 Americans died from 1975 through 2015 due to foreign-born terrorism. That number includes the 9/11 terrorist attacks (2,983 people) and averages nearly 74 Americans per year.

    Since 9/11, however, foreign-born terrorists have killed roughly one American per year. Six Americans have died per year at the hands, guns, and bombs of Islamic terrorists (foreign and domestic).

    "I once asked a guy at [the National Institutes of Health] how much we should spend on preventing a disease that kills 6 per year, and he looked at me like I was crazy," John Mueller, a foreign policy expert at the Ohio State University and co-author of the book "Chasing Ghosts: The Policing of Terrorism", told Business Insider in an email.

    ...

    It's worth pointing out that the US government's multi-billion-dollar-per-year homeland security efforts to thwart terrorism, certainly since 9/11, have ostensibly reduced American deaths and kept the odds low.

    However, it's hard to say — the DHS does not publicly release data about the number of terror attack attempts per day and lives saved as a result of its efforts. The same is also true of counter-terrorist military operations.

    But assume for a moment that one 9/11-like event killed 3,000 Americans per year, and indefinitely. While this would drastically raise the lifetime odds of death by a foreign terrorist, the typical American is still far more likely to die walking out the door, getting into a car, jumping into a pool, or simply standing up.

    Mueller and his colleague Mark G. Stewart explored the costs and benefits of fighting terrorism for the Cato Institute in a September 2014 study. That report states:

    "[T]he United States spends about $100 billion per year seeking to deter, disrupt, or protect against domestic terrorism. If each saved life is valued at $14 million, it would be necessary for the counterterrorism measures to prevent or protect against between 6,000 and 7,000 terrorism deaths in the country each year, or twice that if the lower figure of $7 million for a saved life is applied."

    Assuming the 2010 terrorist attack plot on Times Square was successful (the car bomb didn't go off), Mueller told Business Insider, hitting that measure would require four such attacks per day on US soil.

    "As has been suggested," Mueller and Stewart wrote in their study, "terrorists scarcely seem to be numerous, competent, and dedicated enough to carry out such a task."
    Now, this is only about foreign-born terrorism. I think the threat of domestic terrorism is much greater. Let's just give a big estimate and say it's 4 times more likely than foreign-born terrorism. If you add it up, the size of the threat is still pretty damn small. So the big take away here is that when talking about all terrorism, the costs of counter measures almost always outweigh the benefits of implementing them. This is true in terms of finances, but I suspect it's also true in terms of other kinds of investments that are hard to quantify. Terrorism is a big smoke screen from many issues that are far more pressing.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


    _________________________________
    INTP. Type 1>6>5. sx/sp.
    Live and let live will just amount to might makes right
    Likes Floki liked this post

  7. #27
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7,920

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by captain curmudgeon View Post
    I find it ironic how much of this thread is focused on defending or blaming one or another person or group of persons in this particular incident, and how little concern there is for this incident perhaps being, as the OP noted, an indication of things to come. But then again, most of you have the capability to apply such thought. You just don't because you're lazy and don't care about the bigger picture.

    FWIW, @Magic Poriferan and @ceecee seem to be the only ones touching on the actual issue here.
    You've missed my point. That of mitigating the fear factor for terrorists since they're simply the imported or home grown variety of sociopathic and criminal thugs. Whether they're white nationalists or muslim extremists, when people don't fear them, they're less likely to be frozen in indecision about taking action against them. This ensures that the nation keeps on ticking, rather than going insane and stopping daily life like with the Boston Marathon bombers.

    Look at how Belgium handled their terrorists. They focused solely on supporting the victims and their families through inclusiveness, giving no attention to the terrorists. Behind the scenes, their police and military forces worked to identify and/or capture/kill the thugs behind the tragedy.

  8. #28
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Just saw a couple photos of one of the victims.

    I don't want to be insensitive, but based strictly on physical profiling alone I'd say that poor guy had about a 300% greater chance of getting stabbed in the neck by any non-leftist than the average person. His name alone. Jesus. I doubt he had even the slightest clue he was in danger before it was too late.

    The left is calling him a hero, but getting yourself and one other person killed just to jail a dangerous person for a while isn't really worth it or heroic.
    So the hippie guy deserved it. The other guy, the Army veteran, that you failed to mention, who also died, didn't deserve it and must have known what was coming but died anyway?
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,414

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Now, this is only about foreign-born terrorism. I think the threat of domestic terrorism is much greater. Let's just give a big estimate and say it's 4 times more likely than foreign-born terrorism. If you add it up, the size of the threat is still pretty damn small. So the big take away here is that when talking about all terrorism, the costs of counter measures almost always outweigh the benefits of implementing them. This is true in terms of finances, but I suspect it's also true in terms of other kinds of investments that are hard to quantify. Terrorism is a big smoke screen from many issues that are far more pressing.
    The biggest gain from fighting terrorism in the large scale of things is to keep things from getting worse, but mostly to reduce fear in others as the fear will destroy our country. Just look at what Trump was able to hit on and comparably we have not had it very bad when it comes to global terrorism. Our fear has already been at a heightened state, that's really what drives all the "isms", especially in a social drama enduced environment where viral as opposed to frequency/understanding drives the peoples importance. To say that we have more pressing without looking at not only human interaction, but our own countries peoples reactions is short sighted. As much as people want to say its saves per life, its sanity as well as a lot of other things for those that do not die that it saves. PTSD being one of them in a viral environment is not contained to a small radius around the attack any longer.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #30
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,569

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andante View Post
    You've missed my point. That of mitigating the fear factor for terrorists since they're simply the imported or home grown variety of sociopathic and criminal thugs. Whether they're white nationalists or muslim extremists, when people don't fear them, they're less likely to be frozen in indecision about taking action against them. This ensures that the nation keeps on ticking, rather than going insane and stopping daily life like with the Boston Marathon bombers.
    There are about 300k sovereign citizens in the US. They are classified as terrorists in the US and are considered a terror threat in places they exist, such as Canada and Australia. US law enforcement feels they are a bigger threat than Islamic extremism. That's all law enforcement, not just the FBI or other federal agency. And they're no longer just a fringe or white supremacy group. They demand the right to live in the US while claiming nothing about the government applies to them. None of it, not just taxes. No drivers license, no plates (but they drive), no payment for land or homes (but they live and use them)...etc

    They hate the US government, and they're multiplying: the terrifying rise of 'sovereign citizens' | World news | The Guardian

    Ive posted this comprehensive article before but I will again because this is the part you should pay plenty of attention to.

    To the knowledge of Daryl Johnson, the former Department of Homeland Security (DHS) intelligence analyst, there are no longer any DHS analysts monitoring domestic terrorism full time. (When asked about it, a DHS representative said: “This is a question for the FBI.”)

    “The FBI is the only US government agency that still has full-time analysts assessing threats from the far right,” Johnson said, “and their analytical cadre could be measured in the dozens.”
    There is more involved than you realize. They are a bigger threat than most people even know about. And without federal help and funding, fighting this falls on state and local law enforcement. That's a tall order when many are understaffed. Knowledge is a good thing but ignoring to lessen the impact on everyday life is simply not smart.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
    Likes Floki, Red Herring, cascadeco liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO