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  1. #31
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    I'm having a difficult time understanding why an intuitive thinker would not see that McCain is another Bush.
    And Obama is significantly different how exactly? I have yet to hear anybody explain this to me.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yes, that's the kind of asinine shit I was talking about. McCain supported the invasion of Iraq, yet bitches about Russia doing the same to Georgia. Of course let's not forget that Russia warned about the possibility of war with Georgia over South Ossetia if a precedent was set with Kosovo's indenedence(which we supported).

    In other words: if America does it, it's perfectly alright. If Russia does the same, well freedom around the world is at risk. :rolli:
    1.) Georgia is a democracy, so invasion is bad.
    2.) Russia has a whole fucking lot of oil and is using this to effect Europe, so Russia is bad.

    That's pretty much the nutshell. BTW, both candidates had the same attitude towards Russia. They aren't the enemy again, yet, but the potential certainly does exist.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  3. #33
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    1.) Georgia is a democracy, so invasion is bad.
    2.) Russia has a whole fucking lot of oil and is using this to effect Europe, so Russia is bad.

    That's pretty much the nutshell. BTW, both candidates had the same attitude towards Russia. They aren't the enemy again, yet, but the potential certainly does exist.
    Yes I'm aware of this. I've been following this stuff for eight years about.

  4. #34
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And Obama is significantly different how exactly? I have yet to hear anybody explain this to me.
    Well gee, I guess to start with Obama is a liberal and McCain is and old school conservative. Obama is for the middle class and everything below and McCain is for big business and people who earn more than 260,000 per year.

    What I can't understand is why you need this explained to you?
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  5. #35
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    Soviet Russia was supposed to be for the proletariat as well, look where it got them.

    Dream - Proper Mechanism = FAIL

  6. #36
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    Well gee, I guess to start with Obama is a liberal and McCain is and old school conservative.
    McCain is not an old school conservative, he's a Neo-Conservative. Of course to fully explain this would mean having to give a lecture about American political developments of the last 50 years - which I'm not in the mood to do at the moment.

    Obama being a liberal......well I guess by what we usually call liberal. Since in many ways, the governing philosophy of American society is Liberalism anyways(contrast to the "Republican" tradition that governed prior to the Civil War, as Sandel termed it), and basically Democrats and Republicans both agree on basic Liberal concepts, only differing on specific policies on fufilling those concepts.

    For one thing; neither party or candidate challenge the fundamental legitimacy of the welfare system governing us. In terms of foreign policy, both agree on the same grand strategy - promoting American predominance in the world. Only difference is the specific tactics they propose to achieve that end. Obama is in favor of more diplomacy, McCain less so.

    But being in favor of more diplomacy isn't new in American geopolitics. As I stated elsewhere, if anything this has happened several times before. Talking to Iran and North Korea seem to be a reversion back to Detente with the Soviet Union and opening relations with Maoist China during the 1970's.

    In the grand scheme of things, Obama isn't proposing anything new. He's simply rehashing policies that have been done before, and rehashing universalist rhetoric that had it's birth in the Cold War. You could say that Obama wants a more carrot version of the Bush doctrine.

    In domestic affairs, he simply wants to further expand the welfare state we've been living under since FDR's New Deal in the 1930's. Nothing special there.

    What I can't understand is why you need this explained to you?
    Well I need this explained to me because quite honestly, I fail to see any real significant difference between Obama and McCain; much less the Republicans and Democrats.

  7. #37
    heart on fire
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    Well put, Peguy.

  8. #38
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    I definitely thought Obama out-debated McCain, seemed like a traditional N vs. S thing.

    But I pretty much hate both of them.

    Boo, this is why I never pay attention to politics. It's such bullshit. I'll probably vote for Obama I guess, but shit, I'm not expecting much.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    I definitely thought Obama out-debated McCain, seemed like a traditional N vs. S thing.
    McCain is INTP! Obama is ENFJ!

  10. #40
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I only saw a snippet of it, but McCain (speaking on Russia) really didn't seem to be the poor orator that people make him out to be. He's no ENFJ Obama, clearly, but I thought he spoke well.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

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