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  1. #71
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Socially, laws have gotten more liberal from 1970 on. Economically, just look at spending and the size of government.
    It's gotten a lot bigger. Carter deregulated and privatized a little. Reagan cut a decent amount (outside of defense). The federal budget even shrank for real in the Clinton/Gingrich Era, but the government tends to grow ever larger.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #72
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Socially, laws have gotten more liberal from 1970 on. Economically, just look at spending and the size of government.
    Yeah, the government spending has radically increased, and so has the size of the government. I fail to see how this is can be considered a good thing.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  3. #73
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Yeah, the government spending has radically increased, and so has the size of the government. I fail to see how this is can be considered a good thing.
    Well there's good/bad spending and good/bad/wasteful things government employees can do.

    If you look at were we were in the 30s compared to now, we just keep on getting more free and more prosperous.

  4. #74
    Circus Maximus Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Socially, laws have gotten more liberal from 1970 on. Economically, just look at spending and the size of government.
    There's of course a difference between economic and social liberalism. As this is an economic discussion, I was referring to the former. There's been a steady tendency of reversing the trends of the 1930-1970 period since then. Such as a reversal of the progressive tax code, attempts at dismantling the social programs such as Social Security, Medicare, etc. An increase in military expenditure. Greater wealth transference from the middle class to the upper 1%-ers. Corporate welfare and yes, bailouts. Rampant deregulation. Privatization of government services. Disregard for and dismantling of environmental safeguards in deference to industry and corporate pressure.

    And is government spending your yardstick for liberalism? GWB has grown the government more than Clinton. Reagan grew the government too. Yet both of these guys said big government was bad.

  5. #75
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticus View Post
    And is government spending your yardstick for liberalism? GWB has grown the government more than Clinton. Reagan grew the government too. Yet both of these guys said big government was bad.
    I don't remember GWB saying "big government is bad." However, I clearly DO remember Bill Clinton saying "The Era of Big Government is over." We so wish.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  6. #76
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Well there's good/bad spending and good/bad/wasteful things government employees can do.

    If you look at were we were in the 30s compared to now, we just keep on getting more free and more prosperous.
    I'm not seeing a whole heck of a lot of good spending going on. And what spending could be considered "good" is also tied to so much waste and inefficiency that the "good" aspect tends to be lost in the inefficiency.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  7. #77
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    I'm not seeing a whole heck of a lot of good spending going on. And what spending could be considered "good" is also tied to so much waste and inefficiency that the "good" aspect tends to be lost in the inefficiency.
    Good spending doesn't make it on the nightly news.

  8. #78
    Circus Maximus Sarcasticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'd say we're headed toward corporate socialism, rather than back toward free markets. Lefties (not directed at you) can't seem to understand the difference between the two. It's frustrating when people view issues only as dichotomies.
    That's a pretty big generalization. All "lefties" do this?

    Corporate fascism would be more accurate.

    I don't recall saying anything about free markets. But yes, under Bush in particular there has been a great deal of deregulation heading us towards
    less government oversight. And that has played a role in the current mess we're in.

    But I agree there has been a great rise in Corporatism that is deeply troubling to me.

  9. #79
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    I think it's a slippery slope. You yourself stated that the US has been getting more and more socialist since the 30's.
    The good thing about gradual change is that, if liberalization becomes too much or stops working for whatever sector of gov't or society, we go "hey wait a minute" and it stops and changes eventually.

  10. #80
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Good spending doesn't make it on the nightly news.
    Good thing that I don't rely on the nightly news as my information source.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

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