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  1. #1
    OUTIE 5000 Anaximander's Avatar
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    Default Stefan Molyneux: Cult Leader or Free Thinking Philosopher?

    Stefan Molyneux presents himself as a balanced, open-minded philosopher. That was my initial impression but there was a lingering doubt in the back of my mind and my bullshit detector was going off in my head, so I dug further.


    The day Joe Rogan discovered the real Stefan Molyneux

    The two Molyneuxes were colliding in view of everyone. A former member of the Freedomain Radio “community” had been interviewed by Paulie Doyle, who painted a picture of a man with such bizarre and overreaching self-importance that he records himself even during the most mundane encounters, with the justification “wouldn’t it be amazing if you could hear Socrates having a conversation with his barber?”

    Elsewhere, one of Molyneux’s agents had managed to silence a very noisome critic known as Tru Shibes through a blatantly false DMCA charge. Tru Shibes had been making life miserable for Molyneux—exposing the logical flaws, frightening misogyny, and overall general weirdness in Molyneux’s on-line rants.
    Eliminating Tru Shibes should have been simple—Molyneux had tried it before with another rival forum and most people outside Freedomain Radio barely noticed. But this time it had gone terribly wrong. A lot of people noticed both the act and the blatant hypocrisy and malice behind it.
    And they were writing about it. And talking about it.

    Now, this very public exposure of the “hidden” Molyneux should have been more than enough to concern the forum leader but the worst was yet to come. As Molyneux channeled his public persona in preparation for another fun back-and-forth with Rogan, there was something he didn’t realize.

    Rogan knew it all.

    Rogan now had background information about Molyneux’s true beliefs. And about Tru Shibes.

    And worse.

    He also knew that Molyneux’s wife, Christina Papadopoulos—a practicing therapist in Mississauga, Ontario—had recently been severely disciplined by the College of Psychologists of Ontario for her participation in Freedomain Radio.

    In the early days of FDR, Papadopoulos had been frequently cited as the intellectual architect behind Molyneux’s strange connection between anarchocapitalism and family. (Shortest possible version: “You’ll never be a truly virtuous anarchocapitalist as long as you are still speaking to your parents. And the rest of your family. And pretty much all of your friends.”)

    The clever brand name that Molyneux or perhaps his wife created for this practice is “defoo.” And that was one of the main reasons the College investigated Papadopoulos, eventually finding her guilty of misconduct. Papadopoulos’ discipline was severe. Perhaps the only thing that saved her license was when they pulled her files—they found that she never recommended defooing (neither by that word nor any other) to any of her own patients.

    So much for her husband’s grand theory.

    Yep—Rogan had done some research. And he had questions.

    Suddenly, the public Molyneux found himself in the very uncomfortable position of answering questions about the hidden Molyneux. Rogan peppered him with questions about defooing. About the DMCA takedown of Tru Shibes. About his wife’s discipline for professional misconduct.

    Unprepared, off-guard, Molyneux did something that is still reverberating on the internet.

    He lied.

    He lied a lot. And he lied about some very big things. As Rogan questioned Molyneux about defooing, which Molyneux either minimized or denied altogether, Rogan showed him a video in which Molyneux dramatically ridicules his followers who are not willing to cut off all ties with anyone who supports a state’s ability to make and enforce laws. (which is basically what defooing is all about, except the first people you cut out of your life are your parents.)

    Even after watching the video, Molyneux denied his stance on defooing. Molyneux’s defense almost sounded like the old joke about the cheating husband caught in bed with his mistress: “Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?”

    He lied about his wife’s discipline by the College of Psychologists of Ontario.

    Did he lie about Tru Shibes? That’s a little less clear, but consider this. When Rogan, who knew about the Tru Shibes incident, began asking about the DMCA takedown, Molyneux appeared to misunderstand—quickly switching the conversation to a relatively unknown YouTube poster who had released comparatively few videos. What Rogan didn’t know is that FDR had conflated the two—using a potentially legitimate grievance against the almost-unknown person to simultaneously take down Molyneux’s highly effective critic. Molyneux’s employee had submitted lists of multiple Tru Shibes videos over several bogus DMCA complaints to YouTube—a tactic to get the necessary “three strikes” needed to remove the Tru Shibes account as quickly as possible.

    In order to believe Molyneux’s performance on the Rogan show, you have to accept the notion that while he knew about the virtually unknown poster and FDR’s actions against him in great detail (as he demonstrated on Rogan’s show), he apparently knew nothing about the same actions against the well-known, frequently referenced, and highly subscribed Tru Shibes.

    Does that sound plausible to you?

    In the end, Rogan gave his audience a window into the hidden Molyneux in a way that hasn’t happened since The Guardian’s Kate Hilpern first exposed Molyneux in 2008.
    Link to the Guardian article: Kate Hilpern reports on the son who left home suddenly and for good | Life and style | The Guardian

    Stefan Molyneux :: We Hunted The Mammoth

    The Rogan episode is also easily accessible via Youtube and Rogan's website.

    Decide for yourself. I'm still looking for more information on this guy. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    I have wondered if Stefan was more playing a role. But that is true for most every pundit, talk show host, youtuber, blogger, etc.

    Even if someone is merely playing a role, the question is whether they have put forth value.

    And if there is some value, then take what is good, and throw out the rest.

    And remain skeptical....
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

    -------------------

    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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  3. #3
    AgainstOlympus Typh0n's Avatar
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    Encouraging kids to leave their parents? Sounds like a cult-leader to me.

    I've never payed much attention to him, sometimes his videos are suggested to me on youtube.
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    Privileged Sh!tlord ZNP-TBA's Avatar
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    Still, a lot of his material is highly informative and meticulously researched.
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    Senior Member Morfinyon's Avatar
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    He's pretty good at what he does I guess. Which is pure manipulation.
    meow~
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  6. #6

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    Think for yourself.
    "I'm not in this world to live up to your expectations and you're not in this world to live up to mine. "
    -Bruce Lee
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  7. #7
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Even if someone is merely playing a role, the question is whether they have put forth value.

    And if there is some value, then take what is good, and throw out the rest.

    And remain skeptical....
    This.

    Stefan, like anyone else, requires filtering. His political commentary is pretty spot on and relevant, hence useful. This is format dependent, like interviews with other talking heads or yapping about some event. He does have other outlets and that's where I think the more philosophical & esoteric stuff comes in. That has never really interested me, so eehh. The Guardian article looks juicy, only skimmed it but will check out later.

    Btw Diana Davidson was calling out SM as of a couple years ago as 'cultish'. Her BS radar is fab. David Futrelle is a lolcow. He used the same technique in the anti Stefan article that he used on Cassie Jaye, so eehh.

    Skepticism.

    Cult leader status = *pending*

    P.S. If you want to see Ne dom in action connecting things on the fly quickly and cogently, Stefan is prolly an ENTP.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft
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  8. #8
    OUTIE 5000 Anaximander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    This.

    Stefan, like anyone else, requires filtering. His political commentary is pretty spot on and relevant, hence useful. This is format dependent, like interviews with other talking heads or yapping about some event. He does have other outlets and that's where I think the more philosophical & esoteric stuff comes in. That has never really interested me, so eehh. The Guardian article looks juicy, only skimmed it but will check out later.

    Btw Diana Davidson was calling out SM as of a couple years ago as 'cultish'. Her BS radar is fab. David Futrelle is a lolcow. He used the same technique in the anti Stefan article that he used on Cassie Jaye, so eehh.

    Skepticism.

    Cult leader status = *pending*

    P.S. If you want to see Ne dom in action connecting things on the fly quickly and cogently, Stefan is prolly an ENTP.
    Yeah, fuck Futrelle. I don't know why I even shared that link. He is quite a cherry-picker when it comes to misrepresenting the facts.


    I'm not 100% anti-Stefan, I just know the type and have encountered them before and they can be very very persuasive and charismatic. And he does make good arguments at times. But I draw the line with any thinker or speaker when I feel they are urging me to alter my own lifestyle or cut contacts with people in my life or trying to control my thinking to mirror their own worldview.

    True that about Diana. She's a tiger.

    The "defooing" encouragement may be the most troubling aspect. I understand where it's rooted--yeah a lot of us experience manipulative, unhealthy interaction with family, but completely doorslamming one's entire family seems extreme.

  9. #9
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anaximander View Post
    The "defooing" encouragement may be the most troubling aspect. I understand where it's rooted--yeah a lot of us experience manipulative, unhealthy interaction with family, but completely doorslamming one's entire family seems extreme.
    First I've heard of efoo'ing frankly. Worrisome indeed.

    Tangent: I have seen Stefan interview with Erin Pizzey ~ Erin Pizzey - Wikipedia and both arrive at the same conclusion; a lot of the worlds ills could be reduced/stopped if we did a better job on how we raise kids more, 'We could empty the prisons'. Being born into domestic violence and breaking the generational cycle of it. Is this efoo'ing an offshoot of that?





    Lol, I just realized that I've defooed, if that means to cut all ties with your family. Did this back in 97'. Easily one of the smartest & best decisions of my entire life. Sometimes you just need to GTFO and create distance, permanently. I don't see this as much different than 'most' American families though. Woopdie doo most see their parents what? Once a year? 3 times? The obligatory holidays etc. Is there really that much difference? This is why I married into a 'family first' culture
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #10
    OUTIE 5000 Anaximander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    First I've heard of efoo'ing frankly. Worrisome indeed.

    Tangent: I have seen Stefan interview with Erin Pizzey ~ Erin Pizzey - Wikipedia and both arrive at the same conclusion; a lot of the worlds ills could be reduced/stopped if we did a better job on how we raise kids more, 'We could empty the prisons'. Being born into domestic violence and breaking the generational cycle of it. Is this efoo'ing an offshoot of that?


    From what I know, yes, it's an offshoot of his frustration with bad parenting. You see this in a lot of his videos, for instance his Carrie Fisher video, he is merciless in bashing debbie reynolds and eddie fisher for their irresponsible parenting. He also made a controversial video about Elliot Rodgers where he criticized the lack of emotional connection and attentiveness with the parents, arguing that was likely the root of rodgers' troubles in life that led to his violent actions. I haven't delved into Stefan's website, which is where I think the more overt encouragement to defoo occurs; I mostly just watch his vids on occasion if I see an interesting interview guest.

    As a son of parents who were often emotionally distant and discouraging of my interests and goals, I see how Stefan appeals to a lot of "broken" people who were raised by shitty parents, and I don't think he's entirely wrong in blaming bad parenting for a lot of the shit Carrie Fisher went through as a young adult. The urge to doorslam my family has been strong in the past, but I also don;t want to live in the past--they've made up for less than stellar parenting by being great grandparents to my son. So while I often agree with some of Stefan's points on parenting, I might not always agree with his "answers" to such problems.
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