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  1. #31
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    I don't believe the government is competent enough to stage something like this and then cover up all of the information so neatly.

    One reason the government is not this competent is that they don't have to be. They convinced plenty of people that Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 even though he wasn't, and there was plenty of evidence for this for anyone who wanted to find out. If the government was behind 9/11 they'd be sloppier about it and they could still get away with the whole thing.
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  2. #32
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I don't believe the government is competent enough to stage something like this and then cover up all of the information so neatly.
    I never bought this argument, whether it was on South Park or not. We can go into space and land on the moon... we can stage an attack.

  3. #33
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    Even in the quote you posted, I only claimed that there are two popular theories. To my knowledge this is true. People can believe whatever they want.
    Well, 43% of Egyptians said Israel in a poll taken by WorldPublicOpinion.org. Also, in the same poll 31% of Jordanians thought Israel as well.

    In the world average of the WorldPublicOpinion.org poll, 46 percent of those surveyed said al Qaeda was responsible, 15 percent said the US government, 7 percent said Israel, and 7 percent said some other perpetrator. One in four people said they did not know who was behind the attacks

    Zawahiri even insisted al-Qaeda had carried out the attacks on the US, as he did not like it when Iran and Hezbollah gave Isreal the credit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    I don't believe the government is competent enough to stage something like this and then cover up all of the information so neatly.

    One reason the government is not this competent is that they don't have to be. They convinced plenty of people that Saddam Hussein was linked to 9/11 even though he wasn't, and there was plenty of evidence for this for anyone who wanted to find out. If the government was behind 9/11 they'd be sloppier about it and they could still get away with the whole thing.
    This is an interesting point. In my opinion, they were extraordinarilly sloppy. Why would you destroy all of the evidence at a the biggest crime scene in America in sixty years before you've identified the culprit? I can only think of one reason.

    At the Pentagon, which was the most heavily surveilled building on the planet in 2001, every single video tape that would have caught the supposed 757 crashing into it was confiscated by the FBI before the day was over. Shouldn't someone at least provide an explanation for this other than that it is "necessary for national security?" A few years later, a couple frames from one of the video cameras was finally released. You can find it on the internet; it's disappointing to say the least. The debris from the '757' itself was cleared up by the end of the day, and whatever was left was covered up by dirt. Let me state this again: dumptrucks were ordered to come and cover the entire scene with dirt. If you consider that "covering up all of the information so neatly," then we have a difference of opinion on what a neat cover-up looks like.

    To touch on your opinion about the government being incapable, I agree that the government appears incompetent. But these are powerful people with strong influence over the media, (I can go further into detail about this if you would like) and they may be incompetent at solving the issues that we want them to, but the Bush Administration has been perfectly successful at carrying out their own agenda.

  5. #35
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    I never made the claim that steel had to melt to lose structural support. Please refute the claims I made. What I did claim was that pools of melted metal WERE found, and so metal did melt.
    Misread that - after hearing so many versions of this, I tend to grab the most common claims. Not many people still reference the melted steel since as far as I know, it wasn't steel at all.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Members Only's Avatar
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    there was no thermite reaction (both for cleanup and before)
    Traces of Thermite/Thermate were discoverd in WTC debris.

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  7. #37
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Members Only View Post
    Traces of Thermite/Thermate were discoverd in WTC debris.

    Steven Jones
    And this relates to there being pools of steel how?

    I've long since given up arguing this topic in detail. There are plenty of sites that itemize why these claims are false, all of which are easily found. His claims have been thoroughly rejected in ways that put the matter to rest for me, including actual tests, line by line discreditation, source validation and so forth. But of course, Thermite isn't used to destroy vertical support beams. It doesn't work. Heat sagging works, which is exactly the conditions that would of been present.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    People who are "anti-conspiracy theory" in general are being just as, if not more, illogical than the supporters of the most far out conspiracy theories.
    Yes they are, but it is an excellent way to shut people up and place limits on what is allowed to be discussed on an issue. For some people it places limits on what a person will even allow themselves to think about. It's fine to use logic, but one still needs to be sure that the facts you're resting your logic on have not been distorted or have missing pieces that might have a difference. And also just because something might make you feel scared to believe or might make others laugh snidely doesn't mean it isn't true either.(I mean general "you" here. not directed at anyone personally)

  9. #39
    Senior Member Members Only's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    There are plenty of sites that itemize why these claims are false, all of which are easily found.
    Link?

    And please not to popular mechanics, since its debunking has been debunked.
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  10. #40
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    One thing I want to make clear is that this statement, while true, does not mean much: "Jet fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel. A significant quantity of melted steel was found in pools at all three of the fallen World Trade Center buildings. Steel CANNOT burn below 2700 degrees Fahrenheit. I believe the minimum temperature it can melt at is 2777 F. Jet fuel does not burn above 1600 degrees Fahrenheit. I believe the maximum temperature that jet fuel can burn is 1517 F. This discrepancy is too large for any fluke to have taken place."

    That's true. Do you really think the only thing burning in the Twin Towers was the jet fuel? Did it occur to you that there are lots of flammable things that CAN burn that hot inside an office building, and once the fire has been started by the jet fuel....

    Also. In order for the towers to fall...the steel doesn't have to melt. It is weakened at a far lower temperature than it melts at, and if you recall, once they did fall, it burned in that pile of rubble for weeks, which is the most likely explanation for why there would be pools of melted steel. (assuming they exist).
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