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  1. #11
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    Feminism is so overrated.. Labelling something in order to validate someone's worth
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  2. #12
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post

    I have a daughter on a big university campus and her dad and I, we are like this often. Not so much at her but the overall vibe. My husband is like - it was NOT this way when I went to school here. I didn't experience it where I went either. It was always the place that you learned how to listen to other views and ideas. It's the opposite now. I don't get it.


    This is because today people don't really need to learn anything in school, since everything will be made in China anyway.
    System creates dependant people in order to make future loyal voters and regular users of various substances and services.


    I think it is simple as that.

  3. #13
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Feminism is about the power to be as brittle as glass while banning anyone from shattering you.

    It doesn't want to empower women, it wants to disempower everything else.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Ursa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Feminism is about the power to be as brittle as glass while banning anyone from shattering you.

    It doesn't want to empower women, it wants to disempower everything else.
    I have met some feminists who were this way. Do you have any specific examples in mind? What you're suggesting isn't merely episodic but essential - you'll have to prove that the feminists who don't support this logic aren't feminists.

  5. #15
    Now with less salt. Methylene's Avatar
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    The problem is that fourth wave feminism has become a mess: there are the ones of rigid morals who don't even use their heads, the ones standing up for nothing and the ones who do real activism for equal human rights. (i.e.: I can't stand those fights for making some names have a feminine desinence. This is so useless)
    Of course it freaks me out when I'm told that I should study humanities just because I'm a girl or that I should or shouldn't do X, but I wouldn't say that I'm a feminist. I've learnt that trying to place you inside of a so wide category is nothing but harm. That's also why I prefer to say that, while I don't have a rigid moral compass, I only believe in giving freedom (until it hurts anybody else) to everyone.

  6. #16
    Senior Member anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursa View Post
    I have met some feminists who were this way. Do you have any specific examples in mind? What you're suggesting isn't merely episodic but essential - you'll have to prove that the feminists who don't support this logic aren't feminists.
    It's basically just the philosophical distinction between equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity. The left typically favors the former, and the right the latter. Since the left has more or less hyjacked feminism, or at least the label, right minded feminists seek to call themselves something else, though at present there is no clear and approved term for that branch- hence the entire OP.
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  7. #17
    empress Nørrsken's Avatar
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    Don't worry about labels. Worry about making yourself the best version you can be, and sticking up for the women who can't stand up for themselves for any personal or external reasons. It's disgusting that even so called feminist websites partake in ripping other women down for something so asinine as looks and appearances, when we ought to be more than just our body parts. You do you, in other words.
    I'll follow her into the depths
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    Don't leave me there.
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  8. #18
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brain in a Jar View Post
    As one of those NT men who bashes feminism I admire and have respect for the women in question like yourself and Coriolis as we can relate on many world views without bringing emotions into the equation, I have debated with both of you and find you far more easy to relate to than most women. I dont see you as trying to be men at all as you are still women but with traits that are stereotypicaly "male". Hell just because my computer chair sometimes has dirty clothes on it doesn't mean Im magically going to call it a washing machine or if my dog eats my potato and cheese she doesn't automatically become a human just because she likes human food and shes not trying to be human just doing something that is natural for her.

    The reason why I bash feminism is due to the worse aspects of it such as positive body postivty (Sorry but being 400lbs is not normal and is not something to be lauded as thats like praising a hammer because its rusty everywhere and refuses to work properly, whining about stuff on our lawn that are mild but excusing shit like stoning women who can read and get raped in the Middle East by saying its "cultural". Basically what annoys me is not feminism but that left wing pesduo-intellectual ivory tower cultural Marxist folks who whine all day and cannot even say the make good wine to go with it . Speaking of our lawn on the other hand I suppose the best we can do is try and kill all the weeds in our lawn so we need to address our own problems and try and get full equality between men and women.
    I don't see how it makes sense to bash popular movements because of the worst vocal minorities within them. If your real gripe is with "left wing pseudo-intellectual ivory tower cultural Marxist folks", then bash (or rather logically criticise) them instead.

    As for women like myself and @EliaBlack, we are "trying to be men" only if you see the traits we exhibit as exclusively masculine, rather than as part of the universal human toolbox, available to anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    Feminism is about the power to be as brittle as glass while banning anyone from shattering you.

    It doesn't want to empower women, it wants to disempower everything else.
    By your definition, I would not consider myself feminist, nor would the many feminists I know. Just goes to illustrate how important it is to define terms, especially when there is considerable variation in definitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by anticlimatic View Post
    It's basically just the philosophical distinction between equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity. The left typically favors the former, and the right the latter. Since the left has more or less hyjacked feminism, or at least the label, right minded feminists seek to call themselves something else, though at present there is no clear and approved term for that branch- hence the entire OP.
    Until artificial barriers and influences based on gender are eliminated, we cannot have a situation in which one's outcome is a direct result of one's own abilities, interests, and effort. That is the whole point.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  9. #19
    Almöhi Stephano's Avatar
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    Feminism used to be a civil rights movement. Now it seems to have become a fad poplar among college students.
    I don't like labels though. Everyone's his or her own movement and ideology.
    4w3 - 7w6 - 1w9 : The Idealist

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliaBlack View Post

    I have two questions. The first one is for women who think of themselves as tough, badass, masculine, non-traditional, or anything similar: should we be supporting the feminist movement? Is it hurting us or helping us? Do you personally identify as a feminist, anti-feminist, egalitarian, men's rights activist, or something else?
    As an ace woman in my 30s in STEM who lifts heavy and wouldn't ask anyone to do anything for me: I'm by definition a "feminist" because I'm in an Asian country where the expectation is that I get married, have kids and let my husband/family make decisions for me. Except kids, school, laundry and cooking. I'm supposed to take care of that.

    I don't really use labels. As there are these stupid expectations on the kind of life that I'm supposed to lead, there are also stupid expectations on the kind of life that men are supposed to lead. People should make their own lives. At the same time, I also recognise that some people need these expectations to decide what is "normal" and to define the parameters of their lives.

    So the conclusion that I have is that these historical expectations exist to fill a need in some; not everyone is gonna fit in those expectations so there must be freedom to define your life outside of them; people should not face social consequences for making the choice to be different.

    The feminist movement is necessary to break down the social consequences for choosing to be different. A men's right's movement is also necessary to do the same thing. With regards to the Tumblr-type activists, I don't even know what they are. Going in, it's a morass of incoherent ideology and hypocrisy with little ability to communicate basic ideas.
    "How badly did you have to break it to make it care about people so much?"
    "That didn't break it. It's what made it work."

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