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  1. #1001
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morfinyon View Post
    Well Dubya's foreign policy was much worse than Obama's for example. I know that women and children were killed before, but more than 10 at once is fairly unusual.
    Not unusual. And Trump promised to kill terrorists and their entire families (of course he walked that back but not really). This was the younger child of Anwar al-Awlaki. Obama already took care of the 16 year old son.

    "The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families," Trump said.

    Donald Trump on terrorists: 'Take out their families' - CNNPolitics.com
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  2. #1002
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I keep hearing this talk about how the temporary ban on the 7 nations "goes against our values" nonsense. Which values are these people thinking of? Inclusivity is not an American value; it's a leftist value.

    The American values are enshrined in The Declaration of Independence: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men (and women) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are LIFE, LIBERTY, and THE PURSUIT of HAPPINESS.

    If a certain demographic does not agree with personal liberty, including the right to blaspheme their religion, etc, then they have no business seeking refuge in the great US of A. I fully support President Trump's executive orders and I'm going to judge Trump on the number of Americans killed by terrorists at the end of his term. Obama did a lousy job protecting Americans.
    No "certain demographics" disagree with those personal liberties, because no "certain demographic" is a monolith. Pretending otherwise an ideologically motivated move that does not adhere to the facts.

    Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
    With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
    Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
    A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
    Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
    Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
    Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
    The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

    "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
    With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door! (No muslims tho lol)
    I hope I'm wrong, but I believe that he is a fraud, and I think despite all of his rhetoric about being a champion of the working class, it will turn out to be hollow -- Bernie Sanders on Trump

  3. #1003
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    I think the crux of the whole debate revolves around whether the gov't owes a greater duty to its citizens, than it does to everyone else?

    My answer is that obviously the duty to citizens supersedes international humanitarian concerns.

    Also, heres a handy chart from the US Census Bureau regarding immigration levels and how they have exploded recently.

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  4. #1004
    ISFP complete Amargith's Avatar
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    It is hard to trust a government who ll turn a blind eye to people in need, though, based on arbitrary rules like that. It makes them seem capable of dehumamising people whenever it suits them. And that is a terrifying thought, because you have no idea if your 'group' will be next under the axe. Pretty sure greencarf holders didnt see this one coming either, for example.

    I understand the need to balance resources and make sure you can take care of those under your care, but to easily make this kind of choice because it is more convenient or solidifies power is another matter entirely.

    And Trump isnt exactly reassuring that fear - on the contrary. And if the public is wrong about thay regarding him, it would t be a bad idea for him to actually undo that perception by proving the opposite where possible. He is not even trying, though, so it would seem
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  5. #1005
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I think the crux of the whole debate revolves around whether the gov't owes a greater duty to its citizens, than it does to everyone else?

    My answer is that obviously the duty to citizens supersedes international humanitarian concerns.

    Also, heres a handy chart from the US Census Bureau regarding immigration levels and how they have exploded recently.
    Alright then. Let's slash the defense budget, get universal health care, free higher education, and new infrastructure.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #1006
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Alright then. Let's slash the defense budget, get universal health care, free higher education, and new infrastructure.
    The duty is to consider the interests of the US citizenry before those of anyone else.

    I don't see how the word duty means, implementing your policy preferences.

  8. #1008
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The duty is to consider the interests of the US citizenry before those of anyone else.

    I don't see how the word duty means, implementing your policy preferences.
    Well, that would be a way of redirecting a lot of the money we're spending on people outside of the US to something that would actually help people in the US. I'd like to see some signs from the people who are so bent on putting Americans first that they'd actually care to do something good for Americans.

    I notice that arguments about who deserves more of something than someone else are almost exclusively used to deny things from someone else, and not to give things to the people who supposedly deserve more.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, that would be a way of redirecting a lot of the money we're spending on people outside of the US to something that would actually help people in the US. I'd like to see some signs from the people who are so bent on putting Americans first that they'd actually care to do something good for Americans.
    And the electorate that put Trump in the WH feels like that is exactly what he's doing.... good for Americans.

    That's what happens when you lose the presidency, you no longer get to be the arbiter of what is good for Americans.
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  10. #1010
    Senior Member Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    And the electorate that put Trump in the WH feels like that is exactly what he's doing.... good for Americans.

    That's what happens when you lose the presidency, you no longer get to be the arbiter of what is good for Americans.
    I would say that neither I, nor you, nor the president himself can claim to be the arbiter of what's good for the American people in any singular way.

    Anyhow, I guess I'd open the floor to others here, but it deviates pretty far from the topic of this thread.

    I'm not very inclined to work with the xenophobic set myself, but just hypothetically, I wonder how many people would be willing to implement social-Democratic style policies in exchange for getting all of the immigration bans, and trade protections, and so on that they wanted. From my perspective, if they were at all sincere about the supposedly compassion reasons they want to isolate the country so much, and they'd also be interested in the kind of socio-economic policies that someone like Sanders advocates. It such a point of view is common in the USA, it's almost certainly under-represented, because it does not fit the mold of the Republican or Democratic party, or the left-right political dimension in general.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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