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Thread: Europe - general thread

  1. #1
    Queen hunter Array Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Default Europe - general thread

    To be honest I think we are missing thread like this here, since there are number of people from Europe here and politics is totally biased towards USA daily politics. In other words I trully think that there are worthy stories about this side of Atlantic as well. I have also deliberately said Europe instead of EU, because not every country in Europe is in EU and not everything in EU countries is EU related. Therefore this should be the general thread about everything in Europe. (for everyone)


    For the start it will perhaps be the best to start with some maps and facts as the short overview:

    Countries of Europe



    EU



    EU Public debt





    The UK is exiting EU for sure.
    There is no end to migrant crisis at sight.
    Public debt is ralatively high but most countries are still stabile for the most part.
    The concept of EU is uncertain in it's design. (for now)
    Most of the population is against large trade agreements and wild capitalism.
    The average age is going up.


    So where do we go from here ?
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  2. #2
    lurking Array Rasofy's Avatar
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    So where do we go from here ?
    It doesn't seem pretty

    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


    -----------------

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    Horst Jensen Array entropie's Avatar
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    Since when do Americans take intrest in Europe ? I dont give this thread a week
    Closer.to.Heaven
    Patience, that blending of moral courage with physical timidity.
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    Super Ape Array Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    Since when do Americans take intrest in Europe ? I dont give this thread a week
    Are we all American though?

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    Senior Member Array Lark's Avatar
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    So mentioning Europe is the way to bring all the trolls out, and there's me thought it'd be mentioning women in a positive light or boasting about dating one.

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    Golden shower thoughts Array Stephano's Avatar
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    I think we need to go back to renationalization. The EU developed from an economic community into a unitary state in the last decades, which I eye with suspicion, given that the public has little to no influence on the appointment of the EU commission and council.
    The continuation of the single market and visa-free travel is important to me, at least in the core EU countries.
    One of the reasons Brexit happened is due to an influx of low-wage workers from Poland and other EU countries. If freedom of establishment within the EU destabilizes the job market in certain countries then we're definitely in need of an overhaul.
    The member states should be able to impose restrictions on migration within the EU.
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  7. #7
    Queen hunter Array Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    I think we need to go back to renationalization. The EU developed from an economic community into a unitary state in the last decades, which I eye with suspicion, given that the public has little to no influence on the appointment of the EU commission and council.
    The continuation of the single market and visa-free travel is important to me, at least in the core EU countries.
    One of the reasons Brexit happened is due to an influx of low-wage workers from Poland and other EU countries. If freedom of establishment within the EU destabilizes the job market in certain countries then we're definitely in need of an overhaul.
    The member states should be able to impose restrictions on migration within the EU.

    You aren't too far from me.
    I think that EU should be preserved but it should basically be the place where we can all sit at the table to discuss issues and coordinate agianst pressing issues. United Europe and Europe united under one authority are not the same thing. I would not really call this renationalzation but the whole system has to be rationalized before it falls apart completely ... if 80% of people don't want something then they don't and this is where story ends. The problem is that most countries in Europe are too small to survive globalisation or resist bigger players like USA, Russia or China. What is basically the founding idea behind EU and to me it is totally legit one. (I don't like tons of stuff in those 3 countries)


    One the other hand economic union happened too fast in my opinion and there are too big economic differences within the union, making the common market unstabile by definition. Average wage difference between wealthiest and poorest countries on the continent is about or over 10 times. Plus many countries didn't sort out their totalitarian past and that directly effects how EU functions ... this is possibly the most overlooked problem on the table.

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    What do you guys think about the whole Spain election situation? Especially considering it's economy is growing pretty well at the moment.

    Is it just because it does not have to obey EU deficit rules?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Lark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephano View Post
    I think we need to go back to renationalization. The EU developed from an economic community into a unitary state in the last decades, which I eye with suspicion, given that the public has little to no influence on the appointment of the EU commission and council.
    The continuation of the single market and visa-free travel is important to me, at least in the core EU countries.
    One of the reasons Brexit happened is due to an influx of low-wage workers from Poland and other EU countries. If freedom of establishment within the EU destabilizes the job market in certain countries then we're definitely in need of an overhaul.
    The member states should be able to impose restrictions on migration within the EU.
    So you exclude human resources from free trade zones? Why not energy or financial resources then too?

    Brexit happened because the establishment has run the country down deliberately since before the eighties, making fertile ground for populists and nationalists harking back to the misremembered past of an aging demographic.

    The EU is more confederal than federal or centralist, I believe in political unity and can not think of any directives which made matters worse, its member states which implement them in any case.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Lark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    You aren't too far from me.
    I think that EU should be preserved but it should basically be the place where we can all sit at the table to discuss issues and coordinate agianst pressing issues. United Europe and Europe united under one authority are not the same thing. I would not really call this renationalzation but the whole system has to be rationalized before it falls apart completely ... if 80% of people don't want something then they don't and this is where story ends. The problem is that most countries in Europe are too small to survive globalisation or resist bigger players like USA, Russia or China. What is basically the founding idea behind EU and to me it is totally legit one. (I don't like tons of stuff in those 3 countries)


    One the other hand economic union happened too fast in my opinion and there are too big economic differences within the union, making the common market unstabile by definition. Average wage difference between wealthiest and poorest countries on the continent is about or over 10 times. Plus many countries didn't sort out their totalitarian past and that directly effects how EU functions ... this is possibly the most overlooked problem on the table.
    Germany did pretty well and I think the thinking was members would follow its example, I think that those other global competitors are constantly working to cause the EU's collapse is overlooked more.

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