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  1. #501
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    The far right has been finally defeated in the Netherlands. Now, you should watch France and later Germany. Maybe these countries will resist together, along with Canada; maybe the far right wave that has flooded Russia, the US, Great-Britain, Italy, Poland, Hungary, Turkey and so many others will be stopped here.

    About Emmanuel Macron, for my German-speaking friends:

    Frankreich: Emmanuel Macron - Der Messias der Mitte - SPIEGEL ONLINE

    Macron in Lyon: Einladung an alle US-Wissenschaftler

    Emmanuel Macron kann Frankreichs Prasident werden - WELT
    One swallow doesn't make a summer but I do hope you're right!

    The far right AfD has no chance of entering government in Germany but they are extremely likely to enter parliament (which requires at least 5%).

    Back in the nineties and early 2000s I promised myself to leave the country if the NPD ever achieved that. The AfD is not quite as extreme as the NPD but still... it hurts.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #502
    ISFP complete Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    One swallow doesn't make a summer but I do hope you're right!

    The far right AfD has no chance of entering government in Germany but they are extremely likely to enter parliament (which requires at least 5%).

    Back in the nineties and early 2000s I promised myself to leave the country if the NPD ever achieved that. The AfD is not quite as extreme as the NPD but still... it hurts.
    Perhaps the silver lining is that this way they at least get to feel heard and express their concerns without having too much power? That is what democracy is supposed to be all about, after all - and it might just prevent a build-up of frustration that turns into a movement.
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  3. #503
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Perhaps the silver lining is that this way they at least get to feel heard and express their concerns without having too much power? That is what democracy is supposed to be all about, after all - and it might just prevent a build-up of frustration that turns into a movement.
    Twenty years ago, when the Front National reached more than 10%, that's exactly what many political commentators said. That we should allow and authorize it or else, "the build-up of frustration might turn into a real movement of anger".

    Now, the Front National is at 25%, and nothing has changed, and it is still growing.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  4. #504
    ISFP complete Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Twenty years ago, when the Front National reached more than 10%, that's exactly what many political commentators said. That we should allow and authorize it or else, "the build-up of frustration might turn into a real movement of anger".

    Now, the Front National is at 25%, and nothing has changed, and it is still growing.
    Then perhaps they still don't feel listened to. If that's not the issue, then yes, it's cause for concern and something to actively work against, depending on how radical they are.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  5. #505
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Twenty years ago, when the Front National reached more than 10%, that's exactly what many political commentators said. That we should allow and authorize it or else, "the build-up of frustration might turn into a real movement of anger".

    Now, the Front National is at 25%, and nothing has changed, and it is still growing.
    Frustration and Anger, however legitimate, are the tools by which democracies commit suicide.

    Nothing has changed since Spinoza, when he witnessed a mob lynch the De Witt brothers out of anger.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

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  6. #506
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    I'm really curious about this and how it's viewed in Germany and the rest of Europe.

    10 Murders, 3 Nazis, and Germany’s Moment of Reckoning | Foreign Policy

    The other thing is the kid that shot up his school yesterday. I saw a lot of activity early and then the story died, at least on Twitter. White kid, dad is a right wing nationalist politician. National Front I think they said. This is still a terrorist act but is France going to view it as such or will it matter that he isn't Muslim? I would think that from a political standpoint, it would be helpful to not differentiate, due to the religion, ethnic background or race of the shooter but that's just what I think.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #507
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I'm really curious about this and how it's viewed in Germany and the rest of Europe.

    10 Murders, 3 Nazis, and Germany’s Moment of Reckoning | Foreign Policy
    I think the only safe thing to say about the nazi killers is that their success is viewed as a result of a seriously botched police investigation. Pretty much everything else depends on how much weight you give the whole subject. I, for one, do not find it all that interesting a topic. I was not surprised to learn that there are cells of deluded people trying to act out their own political agends with means outside the legal realm. I expect there are many of them within the country. I expect there are even more of them in the United States.

    In the majority of cases, ideological radicalization is a byproduct of despair, anger, hopelessness, alienation, a lack of social mobility. Nazism merely happens to be a particularly handy ideology for Germans as there is such a rich history and tradition of resentment to borrow from just around the proverbial corner.

    I am sure, though, that Red Herring has a much stronger opinion on the matter.

  8. #508

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I'm really curious about this and how it's viewed in Germany and the rest of Europe.

    10 Murders, 3 Nazis, and Germany’s Moment of Reckoning | Foreign Policy

    The other thing is the kid that shot up his school yesterday. I saw a lot of activity early and then the story died, at least on Twitter. White kid, dad is a right wing nationalist politician. National Front I think they said. This is still a terrorist act but is France going to view it as such or will it matter that he isn't Muslim? I would think that from a political standpoint, it would be helpful to not differentiate, due to the religion, ethnic background or race of the shooter but that's just what I think.
    I havent read the link yet, although I'm eager to, I did follow developments in France and was interested in that the attack happened at the same time as there was a letter bomb attack on the IMF building, they quickly said that the letter bombing was the form of Greek far left elements but in Euro-political discourse attacks on finance capital and institutions, strictly finance as opposed to general anti-capitalism, is usually the form of the far right and simultaneous bomb and gun attacks are also the form of the far right, in imitation of Andres Brevik and Brevik himself did that to give the impression of a wider or greater movement carrying out simultaneous attacks because he dreamt it would convince a silent majority there was a mass movement they never heard of which is an idea from the Turner Diaries.

    The story died quickly, its been a tactic in the UK media to report attacks as carried out by people with mental health difficulties which could have been reported at another time as sectarian-islamic attacks, but I think that if they could report it was the action of far right elements in France at the moment they would, they really would, because they are very, very eager to try to neutralise the threat of the political national front by exposing it as being unreconstructed skin heads in suits as opposed to a new conservative movement.

  9. #509

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    OK, I followed the link and read the article, what I would say first of all is that while these groups try to portray themselves as being pseudo-paramilitary they're all much more like the scene portrayed in the indie movie Green Room, which I consider to be quite a different sort of phenomenon, closer to the kind of marginalised, violent community portrayed in Eden Lake than a politics, even identity politics, which I consider a bastardisation of politics proper.

    Its where there's an intersection between mental health issues and identity, closer to the Manson family than anything to do with political groups, even violent ones.

  10. #510
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I think the only safe thing to say about the nazi killers is that their success is viewed as a result of a seriously botched police investigation. Pretty much everything else depends on how much weight you give the whole subject. I, for one, do not find it all that interesting a topic. I was not surprised to learn that there are cells of deluded people trying to act out their own political agends with means outside the legal realm. I expect there are many of them within the country. I expect there are even more of them in the United States.

    In the majority of cases, ideological radicalization is a byproduct of despair, anger, hopelessness, alienation, a lack of social mobility. Nazism merely happens to be a particularly handy ideology for Germans as there is such a rich history and tradition of resentment to borrow from just around the proverbial corner.

    I am sure, though, that Red Herring has a much stronger opinion on the matter.
    This has been my true fear for some time. Far more than what I fear from any Muslim, particularly outside of the US. Worry about the elements already in the country, stop dicking around with what isn't.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

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