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  1. #1001
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    ^ He got arrested a few days ago, is on bail conditions has to wear electronic tag, and will be extradited when he runs out of legal challenges early next Summer, providing your government has the evidence it says it has against him.

    True, but I remain skeptical until he is extradicted, since it isn't that simple. Especially since his return will probably only complicate things politically (for better or for worse), since he knows trully many things.
    Also if we don't get him soon it many not matter in the practical sense, since the whole country is NOW thinking about what to do with his huge company that sucked in huge chunk of the economy. Currently government runs the company during this mess and if the guy makes some kind of a deal with politicians that will be it. Something like: I get my freedom and my personal wealth and the country get's it's economy back.


    We will see but I know that everyone here is quite skeptical about his return. After all he wouldn't be first from these parts that remained "stranded" in UK.

  2. #1002
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    True, but I remain skeptical until he is extradicted, since it isn't that simple. Especially since his return will probably only complicate things politically (for better or for worse), since he knows trully many things.
    Also if we don't get him soon it many not matter in the practical sense, since the whole country is NOW thinking about what to do with his huge company that sucked in huge chunk of the economy. Currently government runs the company during this mess and if the guy makes some kind of a deal with politicians that will be it. Something like: I get my freedom and my personal wealth and the country get's it's economy back.


    We will see but I know that everyone here is quite skeptical about his return. After all he wouldn't be first from these parts that remained "stranded" in UK.
    It seems a pretty simple case as far as the UK is concerned and there is no reason not to extradite him. UK has to keep as many EU countries on side for obvious reasons so it should not be a problem. It will just a while as his case does not start until April or something like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  3. #1003
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    It seems a pretty simple case as far as the UK is concerned and there is no reason not to extradite him. UK has to keep as many EU countries on side for obvious reasons so it should not be a problem. It will just a while as his case does not start until April or something like that.

    Yes, but it isn't really that simple.


    That is exactly the point, the high politics would probably be happiest that he stays in UK. Becuse those same evidences that he did something wrong would also be the evidence that there was a conspiracy against the people. The fact is that without politics you don't get to build the company of such size that the company of same size in US would have annual income of over 3 TRILLION dollars. You just can't build that kind of a thing without high politics on your side. Especially if it is known that they were changing laws, covering up stuff etc. just so that this guy could spread his business. For quarter of the century almost everybody here is complaining that this guy is getting too much and there is no way to trully clear this without massive rearrangement of the whole political scene. Since this mega company started during the mess that was war of independace and grew as a tumor, but no one dared to touch this in order not to destroy the country/host in the process. Even the press was not intereted in all of this since the guy was main advertiser in just about every media.



    Plus if he gets back that will probably crash the current pro European administration and bring back to power what is basically renamed Communist party. That would probably open the doors to the Russians, which should by the market laws take most of our economy. As a matter of fact the whole opposition and many people are accusing the current administaration that they allowed the tycoon to run away. But if we consider how many scandals there were over decades and the fact that vice president in the current administration is his ex employee and probably illegal son as well ... nothing is impossible.


    This really isn't simple or a situation where you can just excercise law and morality. Russians invested heavily exactly because they knew that this will create this kind of a messy situation.
    What is in a way revenge since my government was/is very pro-ukraine and it designed certain projects that will surely harm Russian interests/economy if implemented.


    Therefore this really is a multi-dimensional mess for which it is perhaps best that it is dissolved quietly as possible ... and this is historic opportunity to end this circus that is going on for 25 years. Since here we are all hostages of this, from high politics to economy and pets.

  4. #1004
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtual ghost View Post
    Yes, but it isn't really that simple.


    That is exactly the point, the high politics would probably be happiest that he stays in UK. Becuse those same evidences that he did something wrong would also be the evidence that there was a conspiracy against the people. The fact is that without politics you don't get to build the company of such size that the company of same size in US would have annual income of over 3 TRILLION dollars. You just can't build that kind of a thing without high politics on your side. Especially if it is known that they were changing laws, covering up stuff etc. just so that this guy could spread his business. For quarter of the century almost everybody here is complaining that this guy is getting too much and there is no way to trully clear this without massive rearrangement of the whole political scene. Since this mega company started during the mess that was war of independace and grew as a tumor, but no one dared to touch this in order not to destroy the country/host in the process. Even the press was not intereted in all of this since the guy was main advertiser in just about every media.



    Plus if he gets back that will probably crash the current pro European administration and bring back to power what is basically renamed Communist party. That would probably open the doors to the Russians, which should by the market laws take most of our economy. As a matter of fact the whole opposition and many people are accusing the current administaration that they allowed the tycoon to run away. But if we consider how many scandals there were over decades and the fact that vice president in the current administration is his ex employee and probably illegal son as well ... nothing is impossible.


    This really isn't simple or a situation where you can just excercise law and morality. Russians invested heavily exactly because they knew that this will create this kind of a messy situation.
    What is in a way revenge since my government was/is very pro-ukraine and it designed certain projects that will surely harm Russian interests/economy if implemented.


    Therefore this really is a multi-dimensional mess for which it is perhaps best that it is dissolved quietly as possible ... and this is historic opportunity to end this circus that is going on for 25 years. Since here we are all hostages of this, from high politics to economy and pets.
    Those things are not related to UK but rather Croatia. Britain only cares about the following: A) Does it have a extradition treaty. B) Wil he get a fair trial C) Would they respect his human rights. D) Is it a crime in both countries. E) Are the charges political motivated.

    While politics of Croatia are alien, what you are saying makes no sense; A) If the government is going after an oligarch and the people are annoyed with this oligarch, would the government not benefit when UK presumably extradite him back home? B) Would it not undermine Russia backing the wrong horse as they cannot create a wedge within the country as Todoric is so toxic?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
    Oh our 3rd person reference to ourselves denotes nothing more than we realize we are epic characters on the forum.

    Narcissism, plain and simple.

  5. #1005
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Those things are not related to UK but rather Croatia. Britain only cares about the following: A) Does it have a extradition treaty. B) Wil he get a fair trial C) Would they respect his human rights. D) Is it a crime in both countries. E) Are the charges political motivated.

    While politics of Croatia are alien, what you are saying makes no sense; A) If the government is going after an oligarch and the people are annoyed with this oligarch, would the government not benefit when UK presumably extradite him back home? B) Would it not undermine Russia backing the wrong horse as they cannot create a wedge within the country as Todoric is so toxic?


    I know that this really isn't the issue for UK, but I simply wanted to point out the mess that is on the Croatian side of this.

    (but if we will talk in real names his last name is read as "Todordich")


    The catch is that Todoric had very strong corruptive influence on all our administrations since independance (especially right wing ones), so if you convict Todocic then you have to do the same with at least half of our politicians (litterally), all of our finance ministers and all the high positioned people the central bank and related government agencies. Since all of them either helped him or they overlooked economic scams that are as big a GDPs of our major cities. Therefore the only ones who will surely profit from all of this are Communists, anarcho communists, far right and various populists. Since the pro-western establishment is cleary involved in this mess, they basically created the Todoric empire in the first place. But to be honest it doesn't even end there, since after the fall of Communism the west was pushing for fast switch towards capitalism and in doing so they created abominations such a Todoric. As a matter of fact crossing between the two systems even today is considered to be something very very fishy and something that will probably never be fully displayed/explained to the public as a process.



    What complicates things is that the guy started in Croatia but he spread into Slovenia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Serbia , so there you will also have to do similar purge there as well. What is questionable logic because if you burn the pro-western establishments it is very questionable who will fill the gap. Especially since people in these parts are more and more nostalgic about Communism, since our democracy and Capitalism in many aspects are such a flop that many in economic sense indeed lived better in Communism. Back in a day you should have keep your mouth shut about certain topics but at least you had a stabile job, food, education and healthcare. While today you have very questionable democracy, very low wages due to globalisation and all of the benefits came into question.



    Also in these lands there is something called Yugonostalgia, and it refers to nostalgia about Yugoslav federation and to some degree "comrade Tito". However since situation is bad people are increasingly getting nostalgic, even in the parts/republics of the federation that suffered war conditions during the 90s.


    Here is the concrete poll for which I would say it is generally correct and with time the shifting is towards nostalgia.





    So the real question is "Is Todoric really worth taking all those risks ?". The guy should be in the prison but the problem with this is that with this you are basically burning down the system and it is very questionable what with grow out of the void of destroyed establishment. Especially since Russia and China will cleary see the opportunity in this "all bets are off situation", especially since they already have influence/players on the field. Not to mention that they are major suppliers of oil and cheap consumer goods in these parts. Plus I would say that new/current administration in my country is better than the previous ones since we have plenty of officials that came from our very large diaspora in the western countries and therefore it is perhaps wrong to give up from "establishment" so quickly at this point. All of this exploded exactly because current administration didn't want to bail out and benefit Todoric. What is logical since he is a parasite that is destroying economy, lowers wages, outsources things, creates depopulation of certain regions, manipulates people through media, etc ... plus he brakes the laws on regular basis and bribes people.



    So as I said all of this is very complicated and this is just general story that lacks details, which complicates things even further. So to tell you the truth I think that it is perhaps best that he stays in UK and lives there with his family as a wealthy person. (under the assumption that he gives his business empire to the state that will then fragment it and sell it various local business people over time, since the company is just too large in it's current form and we called it "parallel government" for a reason). Our government should officially request that UK returns Todoric back but it is very questionable what is actually going on behind curtains, the fact that he will not return for sure before mid 2018 shows that there might be something going on.



    I know that first worlders are very big in "the rule of law" but I am not sure what you will really get here if you go into this direction. Especially since many are looking an excuse to openly rebel and getting all the dirt out has more than enough impact potential to trigger massive political rearrngements. Because if you go after Todoric there are very good chances that you will burn down pretty much everything that was done in post-communist era. (since he IS our post communist era)

  6. #1006
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    To continue ...

    The western media convinced their people that Communism in these parts is dead but I facepalm every time when I hear claims such as these. Our totalitarianism is dead as US confederacy, in other words it isn't and it lives hidden inside the system, people heads and the media generally don't want to show manifestations of it. Until one day the whole thng will rapture up to the surface, since the loyalists kept the idea and passed it to their children.


    Here is how all of that looks like ... since this isn't something you will find in western media.






    Down to this day there is a communist red army monument right in front of parliament of Slovenia, (the home country of American first lady)


  7. #1007
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Btw. this is video worth watching.
    The funny thing is that foreign players are probably scared shitless when they experience the atmosphere.





    This is serbian soccer game between the main local soccer clubs, one is The Red star and the other is Partizan.
    In other words red star is the symbol of Communism and the Partizans were Communist resistance fighers during WW2.

  8. #1008
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    However in the background of all this there is somthing that is very easy to understand.

    Expensive garments manufactured in Eastern Europe's cheap labor factories


    And then everyone is shocked when Communists and Fascists win on elections here, what is to be expected since this is exctly the social climate that created those ideologies in the first place.

  9. #1009
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    LOL, now it came out that basically the whole shipyard industry is in severe crisis as well and that they are looking for foreign investors with experience, since that is the only way out.

    In other words I am really curious how long it will take that someone from Russia or China shows up at the door. Since I am starting to see very obvious pattern.

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