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  1. #1
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Default #IGuessI'mWithHer

    Are you a Hillary supporter? Is that support kind of a reluctant, uncomfortable thing that you feel kind of reluctant and uncomfortable that you're reluctant and uncomfortable about that support?

    Great! Me too! Let's talk about it.

    I want to hear from people who plan to support Hillary in the upcoming election about how you feel about voting for her in November. If you're on the fence like moi, then what got you on the fence? What would you wanna see to climb off of it and be firmly in her camp (if anything).

    My biggest issue with Hillary is that she can't seem to get out of her own way a lot of the time. Case in point is the audio that was just released from a fundraiser she did last month where she basically talks about "basement dwelling" Millennials who don't understand that real political change doesn't happen over night.

    I read a FP article recently that I felt summed up my issue with Clinton pretty accurately:

    Quote Originally Posted by Foreign Policy
    With Clinton, as with Diodotus, political language and action undermine directness and transparency — traits, Thucydides writes, that marked the Periclean period — for coldness and calculation, both on the level of personal ambition and on the level of national strategy. Diodotus lacked, as does Clinton, what we have come to call the “vision thing.” And though they both seek what the Greeks called “the good” — that is to say, the pursuit of worthy ideals — Diodotus and Clinton do so not by rousing their fellow citizens to rise to their nation’s ideals, but instead by encouraging them to lower themselves to matters of practical advantage.
    It just often comes across that she feels that she's leading in spite of the people rather than because of them, and so it's more about her and her ambition than achieving anything meaningful for the country

    Thoughts?

    [OP NOTE: I'm only interested in responses from people who are Democrats (or have voted Dem in the past) or plan to support Hillary Clinton this election. If you are neither of those things, then this isn't the thread for you.]
    Last edited by Wind Up Rex; 10-04-2016 at 12:53 PM.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Here <waves> I'm aware that she has limitless ambition. I'm aware she can't get out of her own way. She will never be a cool black guy like Obama. I heard what she said about baristas in the basement - there are plenty of people with college degrees working at Starbucks and living with their parents. She never said they wanted to be there and Bernie agreed with her so it's a moot point to me.

    So I will grudging vote for Hil-dawg because there is no way on this earth I'm voting for Donald Trump. I'm plenty disappointed that these two are the best we can do and it's not even Donald Trump himself that bothers me most. It's his flock. It's the gigantic waste water treatment plant that they blew up (with his blessing) and covered the entire country in their shit. It's going to be really difficult to wash off, no matter who wins this election.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  3. #3
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I'm not excited about voting for her... she makes me cringe a bit, but Trump creeps me out immeasurably more, so she's definitely getting my vote

    really though, I don't feel like I'm the sort of voter that she's interested in or that she's going to do anything for... I feel the same about Trump as well... I'm simply an unglamorous demographic that politicians are only interested in for the sake of getting our votes.

    I don't think that she's going to be able to get anything done while in office as well... I don't think that any republicans in congress will let that happen



    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett
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  4. #4
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    I am voting her due to two core events: 1. Trumps desire to deregulate the FDA. That terrifies me for reasons I don't even need to list. 2. Electing Pence to be VP and stated intent to make him de-facto president. That terrifies me even more.

    Those events dovetail into the most important issue. The supreme court. We have 1 garunteed appointment. After the intentions that trump has above, it shows what type of person would be placed in for a life appointment. This and these are far, far too serious. Serious enough that I'd vote for some other conservative in place of him.

    I don't support Hillary. If and when she is I expect democrats and the public to put enormous pressure on her to be accountable. What I am, is emphatically against trump.
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  5. #5
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I voted for Sanders in this primary. I voted for Obama in the 08 primary. I don't like Clinton. I will definitely be voting for her.

    I don't even like bringing it up to most people. Never mind the Republicans, as I don't care what they think and they always dislike my choices. But I dread going through the tedium of explaining my support for Clinton to everyone that's voting for a third party candidate or refusing to vote out of some kind of supposed principle or nihilism about the "establishment", who often remain unimpressed and critical. So it makes my support a bit of an albatross around my neck.

    I'm not happy about the idea of Clinton being president. I have no sense of enthusiasm about the next four years at all. Neither her capabilities as a politician or her political positions (whatever those are) give me hope. My vote for Clinton feels like a pragmatic act of defense against Trump and the Republicans. She's not even a good defense, she's just the only one available.

    And yet, it's an easy choice for me to make. Nothing is more establishment and status quo than Clinton. That's not a good thing per se, but it's totally survivable for four to eight years. We can handle that. Having Clinton is basically playing for time. By contrast, I shutter to think what damage a Trump presidency could do. I don't trust we could handle that. And for all practical purposes, there are no choices but Clinton or Trump, and nothing one can do that won't help one or the other.

    I also want to say that even at my least impressed with Clinton, what always guarantees I stay with supporting her, are the constituencies. When I compare Trump and Clinton's supporters, the choice is easier than comparing Trump and Clinton themselves. If nothing else, I have to do something to keep Trump from winning, because I can't let his supporters get any big ideas. They need to be denied encouragement and affirmation. It would be too dangerous to give that to them. In this current political climate, I genuinely fear for some people I know. I realize that electing Clinton won't make that go away, but electing Trump will make it a lot worse.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #6
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss fortune View Post
    I'm not excited about voting for her... she makes me cringe a bit, but Trump creeps me out immeasurably more, so she's definitely getting my vote

    really though, I don't feel like I'm the sort of voter that she's interested in or that she's going to do anything for... I feel the same about Trump as well... I'm simply an unglamorous demographic that politicians are only interested in for the sake of getting our votes.

    I don't think that she's going to be able to get anything done while in office as well... I don't think that any republicans in congress will let that happen



    This is where the voters need to focus. If you're going with Hil, vote for the Dems in the house races. She makes me cringe too, it's almost painful but Trump makes me feel like I need one of those Meryl Streep Silkwood showers.

    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  7. #7
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    For all the reasons others have already eloquently covered, and more.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  8. #8
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Up Rex View Post
    Are you a Hillary supporter? Is that support kind of a reluctant, uncomfortable thing that you kind of reluctant and uncomfortable about?

    Great! Me too! Let's talk about it.

    I want to hear from people who plan to support Hillary in the upcoming election about how you feel about voting for her in November. If you're on the fence like moi, then what got you on the fence? What would you wanna see to climb off of it and be firmly in her camp (if anything).

    My biggest issue with Hillary is that she can't seem to get out of her own way a lot of the time. Case in point is the audio that was just released from a fundraiser she did last month where she basically talks about "basement dwelling" Millennials who don't understand that real political change doesn't happen over night.
    Yet Donald Trump says far worse several times each day. Perhaps the repetition itself helps to inure people to the effect.

    I don't know that I am exactly excited to vote for Clinton, as I plan to do, but then I just don't get excited about elections. I voted for Obama with some hesitation due to his inexperience, but McCain had lost my respect by pandering to the religious "right", and Romney was unconvincing on many levels, despite acquitting himself respectably as governor of my home state of Massachusetts.

    I am comfortable voting for Clinton. I like her diversity of experience, as well as her lifelong commitment to public service. Sure - she is ambitious, sometimes robotic, overly-prepared, and not charismatic, but I have been called the same. I suspect she is keenly aware of her shortcomings, and doesn't let them dissuade her from working toward her goals. It is a bit reminiscent of the Kennedys, in that however often they fell into scandal or personal tragedy, they got right back up to "fight the good fight". I would be more concerned about her ability to get anything done as president were it not for the numerous Republicans she served with in the Senate who praised her work ethic, thoroughness, and preparedness.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  9. #9
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss fortune View Post
    I don't think that she's going to be able to get anything done while in office as well... I don't think that any republicans in congress will let that happen
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I would be more concerned about her ability to get anything done as president were it not for the numerous Republicans she served with in the Senate who praised her work ethic, thoroughness, and preparedness.
    Yup. If people thought the GOP was stubborn and cock-blocky over everything Obama tried to push and do, just wait until Clinton is in. The GOP is going to have a complete nuclear meltdown like we've never seen before and lose their collective heads. I suspect it will go down with them saying "we aren't going to anything until you're gone" and literally do nothing, to force Clinton to use executive orders, and give them the most tenuous reason to impeach.

    I am also honestly scared at what trump supporters will do if they lose, and I fear another GOP wave in 2018 and 2020. I wanted to strategiclly see Trump get in, so it would cause an epic democratic wave in 2020 and rid the GOP for good. Unfortunately, Trump has proven to be too dangerous in a very literal level.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    This is where the voters need to focus. If you're going with Hil, vote for the Dems in the house races.
    Precisely. It's all we can do. I feel sad that I live in Oregon where it goes reliably blue every time, and my congressional district always goes blue as well (though we always get crazies who try. I fully expect to see Art Robinson run in my district again).
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  10. #10
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I am also honestly scared at what trump supporters will do if they lose, and I fear another GOP wave in 2018 and 2020. I wanted to strategiclly see Trump get in, so it would cause an epic democratic wave in 2020 and rid the GOP for good. Unfortunately, Trump has proven to be too dangerous in a very literal level.
    I've had the same thoughts. I just really don't think a Trump presidency can be chanced, but I have little faith in Clinton allowing the Democrats to hold off a swing toward the GOP. What's even worse is that 2020 is a census year, so the Democrats may lose their chance to undo the great Republican gerrymander.

    In the mean time, I guess I'll hope for some sort of mass exodus from the supreme court over the next 4 years.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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