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  1. #51
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Election boycott? Who proposed an election boycott?
    He thinks we're ganging up on him.

  2. #52
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Election boycott? Who proposed an election boycott?
    Anyone that said that there's no point in voting.

    However, if you are curious about what I think of lesser party members, I'll point out that the logic behind why boycotts don't work is much the same as the logic behind why voting for one of the lesser parties doesn't amount to much. It is sadly true that voting for Bob Barr or Ralph Nader would be close to not voting at all. This comes back around to the fact that presidents are elected in a way very unfair to third parties.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #53
    Oberon
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    Well, I would point out that if you observe the futility of voting for one of the major party candidates, to subsequently persist in doing so would be nonsensical.

    Even you, Magic, are so indoctrinated by two-party thinking that you instinctively think that a third-party vote is no vote at all.

    The truth is, we don't really have a two-party system. As Gore Vidal so astutely observed, "We have a one-party system. It has two right wings."

  4. #54
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    If politician says that you should vote, even if only to choose the lesser of two evils, then it's because he thinks that you think that he is the lesser evil.

    By not voting you are telling a politician that if he wants your vote, he'll have to offer something different. If you vote for him anyway, then what incentive does he have to change?
    First of all, when you don't vote, you aren't telling a politician anything. The politicians don't care, as long as some people are voting, the eleciton can still be conducted and the politicians can still compete of the people who are going to vote, even if it's only 1% of the population. Holding out your vote is not affective persuasion.

    Secondly, I come back to the point that legislators have more power to alter how elections are conducted, so you are going to want to put the leverage on them.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #55
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Anyone that said that there's no point in voting.
    That's a false syllogism.

    Voting proves itself useless independent of the fact that it's a two way street.

  6. #56
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    First of all, when you don't vote, you aren't telling a politician anything. The politicians don't care, as long as some people are voting, the eleciton can still be conducted and the politicians can still compete of the people who are going to vote, even if it's only 1% of the population. Holding out your vote is not affective persuasion.
    The winning candidate doesn't care, but the loser does. The next contender then has to decide where the loser went wrong, and how he might get more votes. He can a) try to prise his opponent's supporters away, or b) try to recruit new supporters from the nonvoters. How can he do that? By offerring them something which they haven't been getting, and thus inspiring them to vote next time.

    In other words, it's not that voting is pointless, but rather that there is a point to not voting.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  7. #57
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The truth is, we don't really have a two-party system. As Gore Vidal so astutely observed, "We have a one-party system. It has two right wings."
    No the truth is, we have a no-party all work system. Many of us refer to it as the economy. I call it a boxing ring.
    The real politicians are too busy to campaign.

    But they let the democrats and republicans play their game. That helps divert attention from the real power.
    Makes it easier for those in power to remain in power.

  8. #58
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Well, I would point out that if you observe the futility of voting for one of the major party candidates, to subsequently persist in doing so would be nonsensical.
    Well, the actuall mechanism of the vote is not totally futile when voting for a candidate, if you are in a highly contested state (and I am). As I have pointed out, the impact of choosing one candidate over the other is subtle, but it's still there. It's not going to cost me much to caste my vote to nudge it a little in the slightly more acceptable direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Even you, Magic, are so indoctrinated by two-party thinking that you instinctively think that a third-party vote is no vote at all.
    Okay, first of all. I have to do this for the word "indoctrinated": :rolli:

    Secondly, I'm actually just observing how election law works around here. I'm not acting on what they tell me, I'm acting on my observation that they've basically legislated it to be pointless to vote for a third party.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The truth is, we don't really have a two-party system. As Gore Vidal so astutely observed, "We have a one-party system. It has two right wings."
    Yes, I've heard that before. It's a bit of an exageration, but then most things people like to quote are over-simplified, and I care more about small degrees than most people do.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #59
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    People think that McCain would be an excellent supreme commander.

    Any thoughts about this?

  10. #60
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    People think that McCain would be an excellent supreme commander.

    Any thoughts about this?
    His voice is too high-pitched.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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