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  1. #21
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I think this way.

    1. You are not doing anything because you are voting for people that don't make big decisions
    That I voting for someone that makes decisions of any consequence is all that matters. That being said, the impact of the president varries greatly. If he never makes an major decisions, then it's no skin off of my back. If he does make major decisions, then I will be glad if I picked the right person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    2.True, but your way of thinking is common and provides fuel for the game.
    It doesn't really fuel the game that much. I repeat the fact that voting for the major candidates does not hinder ability to still protest the system. It does not cost. And what if none of us voted? That would be one of the dumbest ways to try an bring about change. So haphazard and so likely to be ineffective. Political boycotts usually fail.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizer View Post
    Just cause we're at it, something by Mencken : Last Words by H.L. Mencken
    Well, I believe Mencken said that he believes government to be inherently evil, so he kind of cuts himself out of the discussion of how to handle the government right there. He's too cynical to really engage in such a discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    I encourage, and even implore you all to not vote, and to tell your friends not to either.

    If we really want change, we're not going to get it by electing anyone who would run.
    First, I will return you to my response to Antisocial One's second point.

    I'd also like to say that while I want change, it's not the only thing that matters. If possible, I would like to maintain some stability through the transission. This idea that we have to someone how stop voting to change the system is really risky in an entirely unwarranted way. It's immature, really.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #22
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    1. You are not doing anything because you are voting for people that don't make big decisions
    Last time I checked the Executive branch was fairly powerful.

  3. #23
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I have already done thread about this so we can continue there if someone is interested

  4. #24
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    Sure, no politician is Jeezus Cat. They're both human and both prone to selfishness and the like.

    That said, people will vote, and one candidate will win. And no, America is not a "house of cards" and nor is it going to fall down anytime soon. Why? Because the world is tied to it. If America sneezes, the world catches a cold.

    And frankly, while I realize that neither of the two politicians are perfect, would you dare entrust the white house to more of the same for four more years? After two wars, the greatest financial crisis past the Great Depression, and an approval rating of 26%?

    Any self-respecting NT would swerve the other way posthaste. Or any other semi-rational human being.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  5. #25
    sophiloist Kaizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, I believe Mencken said that he believes government to be inherently evil, so he kind of cuts himself out of the discussion of how to handle the government right there. He's too cynical to really engage in such a discussion.
    A tad adhominem, but I get what you're trying to say.
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  6. #26
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'd also like to say that while I want change, it's not the only thing that matters. If possible, I would like to maintain some stability through the transission. This idea that we have to someone how stop voting to change the system is really risky in an entirely unwarranted way. It's immature, really.
    How is it risky?

    Do tell.

    Also what's this about immaturity -- or have you just bridged everything I say with it?

  7. #27
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    How is it risky?

    Do tell.
    First of all, it will never realistically happen that no one will vote. The most extreme thing that will take place is that a large portion of the electorate, usuall falling within certain lines, will not vote, leaving the remaining people to comprise the whole voting base. It's stupid, because all you do is give total control to the people you don't agree with.

    Now, just to entertain the impossible hypothosis that no one votes, it would be so unprecedented a failure in one of this country's intrinsic governmental mechanisms, that it would immediately cause political chaos of untold ramifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Also what's this about immaturity -- or have you just bridged everything I say with it?
    Because it was an extreme plan that abides unnecessary costs, and was probably concluded too hastily. These are all traits that I often equate with fussy adolescents.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #28
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    First of all, it will never realistically happen that no one will vote.
    Then why do you suppose people insist so profusely that I do? Y'think it might be a safe bet that we're never going to reach an extreme position here?
    The most extreme thing that will take place is that a large portion of the electorate, usuall falling within certain lines, will not vote, leaving the remaining people to comprise the whole voting base. It's stupid, because all you do is give total control to the people you don't agree with.
    Oh I see. So I should vote because I don't want people I disagree with to have power over me? Well... looks like I'm in a jam either way, since I disagree with a good portion of all American policy, especially those professed by those two currently seeking power.

    Interesting conundrum wouldn't you say?

    And on top of that, I'd venture that any individual who truly put careful thought into their decisions would feel the same way. Unfortunately, we don't have too many of those folks in this... world. That's why they all vote.

    Now, just to entertain the impossible hypothosis that no one votes, it would be so unprecedented a failure in one of this country's intrinsic governmental mechanisms, that it would immediately cause political chaos of untold ramifications.
    You have got to be fucking kidding me.

    No wait... maybe I'm wrong. Explain -- I'm very curious about the reasoning behind this hypothesis.


    Because it was an extreme plan that abides unnecessary costs, and was probably concluded too hastily.
    Gotcha. So then in this way, it's an analogue to every law enacted in the United States since 1776.
    These are all traits that I often equate with fussy adolescents.
    Or senators and congressmen, many of whom, in person (I know because I've toured the capital building with more than one) confess to lightly skimming, or often not even glancing at 90% of the bills they sign their names to, and the rest of whom I presume act similarly given the enormous quantity of legal literature in the works at any and every given moment.

  9. #29
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    There will never be a perfect presidential candidate. You could make valid counter arguments about most of what you mentioned here. Two examples. The Obama is the most pro-abortion candidate because he voted against the Illinois "Born Alive Bill". He voted against it because it would likely have been over-turned on constitutional grounds--he was a Constitutional Law professor. The Nonpartisan Tax Policy center said the country could not afford either Tax Plan, but that Obama's was more affordable.

    Anytime I see terms like "doctrinaire liberal" or a superlative like "most pro-abortion presidential candidate in history", I tune out.

    These are sensationalized emotional arguments.

    This is sensationalism:

    "McCain’s support for limited government doesn’t extend far beyond tearing down Bridges to Nowhere"

    People who are swayed by these arguments are either already looking for reasons to trash the "other candidate", or just don't have a lot between the ears.

  10. #30
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Gasp!
    McCain and Obama are looking out for themselves!!
    I thought neither possessed ambition and were simply forced into running for the Presidency as George Washington was two centuries ago.
    My goodness! I better tell all my friends this shocking newsflash.
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