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  1. #51
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    pure_mercury-idealism+pragmatism=me

  2. #52
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Libertarian is where a lot of folks like me fit in: socially liberal, but fiscally conservative.

    Translation: I don't care who you fuck (as long as it isn't my husband and is capable of consent), and what you do to your body is up to you. But don't expect me to spend my tax dollars on it.
    That's cool. I just think libertarians always stress about government power and hardly ever about corporate power, which is arguably more powerful. Both those entities want to control you, modern liberals see this and want to use government to take control away from powerful private interests.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    That's cool. 1.I just think libertarians always stress about government power and hardly ever about corporate power, 2.which is arguably more powerful. Both those entities want to control you, modern liberals see this and want to use government to take control away from powerful private interests.
    You're wrong on both 1 and 2. What you fail to understand is that libertarians believe that corporations derive their power from government.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You're wrong on both 1 and 2. What you fail to understand is that libertarians believe that corporations derive their power from government.
    Corporations derive their power from a lot more than the government...: (markets).

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Corporations derive their power from a lot more than the government...: (markets).
    Dude, don't turn this into another rant against libertarians.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #56
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Dude, don't turn this into another rant against libertarians.
    Just pointing out the obvious.

  7. #57
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Why bring up marginal non-interventionist Repubs and old neocons? Repubs tend to be hawks, Dems tend to work more towards diplomacy and don't want to get involved hostilely with other nations as much as Repubs.

    (by the way, would you have chose to stay uninvolved in WWII?)
    Because that is the history, and the fact that it may not be that way now doesn't mean it wasn't in the past, or won't be in the future.

    How many Democrats abdicated their responsibilities and authorized Dubya to invade Iraq? You're buying into partisan bullshit here.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #58
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    That's cool. I just think libertarians always stress about government power and hardly ever about corporate power, which is arguably more powerful. Both those entities want to control you, modern liberals see this and want to use government to take control away from powerful private interests.
    No, they don't. They want to use the government to reward those which they find good (and those who get them elected). Take off the Blue Team glasses for once.

    Besides, the easiest way for a private organization to gain power is to use the federal government to regulate their market in a friendly way. Read some Kolko.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Corporations derive their power from a lot more than the government...: (markets).
    This is silly. How the hell are you defining power if it can be wrought from two opposite forces.
    I don't wanna!

  10. #60
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Mr Corporation has a lot of money.
    Mr Politician has a lot of legislative power.

    One day Mr Corporation and Mr Politician get together, and decide to trade. Mr Corporation trades money, resources and propoganda, and in return Mr Politician offers him subsidies, and protection from competition. Both think that this is an excellent arrangement.

    Mr Corporation doesn't like the market, because he has to convince the commoners to buy his product, and it would be so much easier if they simply had no choice. With this Mr. Politician can help him, and with a few penstrokes he can trade the freedom of the many for the wellbeing of the few. Both parties in this trade benefit, even though everyone else suffers--that's what politics is all about.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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