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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    What % of black people do you think agree with this? It's absurd to think Blacks would have been better off without this legislation. Can you explain this to me?
    The percetage of black people who agree is irrelevent. The ancients often attributed a good harvest as the Gods responding favourably to their animal sacrifices. People are prone to interpret their experiences in a multitude of ways, often contradicting each other, but all consistent with the evidence cited.

    The author I had in mind when writing those remarks was a black academic, the economist Thomas Sowell, who wrote a short and very readable book on the issue called Civil Rights: Rhetoric or Reality.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  2. #252
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    So you think it's fine for racists to not serve black people. Nothing else to say to that, except you're ignorant.
    No, I am not ignorant. It's not "fine" to discriminate against anyone because of the race. However, it's far worse to FORCE people to do things than it is to allow people to be ignorant. Like in this situation: you're behaving like a complete tool, but it's better for MBTIc to hear your opinion than it is to silence your voice.


    What % of black people do you think agree with this? It's absurd to think Blacks would have been better off without this legislation. Can you explain this to me?
    A) People don't always know what is good for them and what is not, especially when something highly emotional and painful is involved; and B) explain how that claim is absurd. I triple dog dare you.


    That line was responding to someone showing off their devastating wit, calling me a douchebag and you're accusing me of ad hominem attacks? You're too funny.
    It was still ad hominem and there was still a baseless assertion. Valiant attempt at a dodge, though.


    Secondly, I received more than a few PMs, how they stopped posting in this forum because of the right wing babbling by the most frequent posters here. Baseless? I guess it depends on your point of view.
    Ah, you've received some private messages. So you get to say that people are complaining, but you can't provide the proof, because that is a violation. What a Catch-22.

    Oh, and if people don't want to post because other people disagree with their most cherished orthodoxies, then I know what we need:

    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanlittlechimp View Post
    If you think a racist should not be forced to serve anyone and considering most of the south in 1964 was racist. Is it simply ok for blacks to be denied services? Whether you call it free association or Jim Crow, the denial of services to blacks is denied either way.

    How can you say that and then claim you are glad Jim Crow laws were repealed? Don't you think there's a contradiction?
    There is no contradiction there.


    Obviously the court cases mentioned didn't have too much effect in the south since Jim Crow Laws were still ACTIVE. There was STILL massive segregation up until 1964, so obviously it wasn't dismantled.

    But guess what, after 1964 - there was serious MANDATORY desegregation.

    What don't you get about this!?!?
    Jim Crow = segregation (and your so called "free association").
    Civil Rights Act of 1964 = desegregation.
    Because one is the government mandating discrimination against certain groups of people, and the other is people only doing business with whom they want. Jim Crow is NOT free association. It makes free association ILLEGAL. It cannot be any simpler. I refuse to believe that you cannot comprehend this distinction.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #254
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    I'd like to hear Reaon's and Pure_Mercury's take on the social cost of customer preferences.

    I presume you assume that discrimination is not market supported.

    Let me start it up - if a minority group is denied service for food, what action would you take?

  5. #255
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    meanlittlechimp,

    It would not be okay for a black person to be denied a service by a white racist, but it does not follow that whites should be compelled to offer black people services. It is the prerogative of each individual to decide who they want to trade or not trade with--regardless of their reasons. In any case, turning away paying customers because of the colour of their skin is not good business practice.

    Moreover, it seems to me that people in the south were not as racist, or segregationist, as is sometimes supposed. Why would so many state officials think it necessary to write and enforce laws segregating blacks and whites unless they were not segregating themselves? After all, a law which forbids a black from marrying a white restricts the freedoms of both.

    There is no contradiction in the views expressed here. An involuntary servant is a slave, and so would be a white racist forced to serve a black, even be it fleeting.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    I'd like to hear Reaon's and Pure_Mercury's take on the social cost of customer preferences.

    I presume you assume that discrimination is not market supported.

    Let me start it up - if a minority group is denied service for food, what action would you take?
    Discrimination is not market supported, unless the society is so racist that a heterogeneous population is an impossibility. That is clearly not the United States. I mean, anti-discrimination legislation would not even be possible in such a society.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Let me start it up - if a minority group is denied service for food, what action would you take?
    I would start a business which sells food and does not discriminate according to skin colour. And I would become very wealthy.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  8. #258
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Discrimination is not market supported, unless the society is so racist that a heterogeneous population is an impossibility. That is clearly not the United States. I mean, anti-discrimination legislation would not even be possible in such a society.
    1) A minority that hold power can invoke change that is not widely supported (isn't that your position on the bailout?)

    2) Preference does not have to be expressed to carry a cost to the minority group - that is, people can rationally support not being racist while still exerting hidden biases (see: lower wages/grades/etc for minority groups despite equal ability)

    3) All discrimination can be market supported if both sides of the market discriminate, even before economics of scale are considered.

    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    I would start a business which sells food and does not discriminate according to skin colour. And I would become very wealthy.
    Most of the population won't buy from you. The one you buy from does not support your practises. One lowers your market, the other raises your cost of doing business.

    Where does your profit come from?

  9. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    1) A minority that hold power can invoke change that is not widely supported (isn't that your position on the bailout?)
    A minority that has undue government influence can do this, but that would not be the case in this situation.

    2) Preference does not have to be expressed to carry a cost to the minority group - that is, people can rationally support not being racist while still exerting hidden biases (see: lower wages/grades/etc for minority groups despite equal ability)
    This could be true, but anti-discrimination laws are a greater imposition on society through the loss of rights. This is not a purely economic question. Also, productivity could be higher, in that the market would be something closer to a pure meritocracy. I think we can all agree that social pressure and profit potential are effective anti-discrimination mechanisms.


    3) All discrimination can be market supported if both sides of the market discriminate, even before economics of scale are considered.
    Both sides discriminating how? You mean both buyers and sellers? People already discriminate (or don't discriminate) in the marketplace all the time.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by ptgatsby View Post
    Where does your profit come from?
    The difference between the sale price and production price. Those prices might be higher than for the majority of the population, but given the demand for food I suspect that there would still be a profit to be made. But you did not specify these extra conditions.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

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