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  1. #121
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Here is a great Hit and Run post from the Reason website concerning government management of its own funds.

    Hit & Run > Because No One Does Fiscal Reponsibility Like the Federal Government - Reason Magazine
    $59 trillion...that almost makes me want to cry.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #122
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    One post seems to suggest economic gloom and doom from a democratic president, and then another post will say that the president hardly has any effect on the economy.
    Here is the thing.

    On economic policy the Republicans are good and the Democrats are bad, at least with respect to words (usually). If Republicans lived up to their words, then the economy would be dandy, and if Democrats lived up to their words, then the economy would be in the shitter. However, both are lying scum. In practice the Republicans are worse for the economy than their words, whereas the Democrats are better for the economy than their words. Ultimately there is little difference between the two, despite the huge difference in rhetoric.

    This also explains why libertarians tend to be attracted to the Republican party, because they so often say the right words. Though the ideals and principles expressed by those words are summarily dismissed once in power. George W. Bush is a classic example, and unfortunately, many people believe the his rhetoric, and so the ideals of liberty and free markets are tainted by association.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  3. #123
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    Here is the thing.

    On economic policy the Republicans are good and the Democrats are bad, at least with respect to words (usually). If Republicans lived up to their words, then the economy would be dandy, and if Democrats lived up to their words, then the economy would be in the shitter. However, both are lying scum. In practice the Republicans are worse for the economy than their words, whereas the Democrats are better for the economy than their words. Ultimately there is little difference between the two, despite the huge difference in rhetoric.

    This also explains why libertarians tend to be attracted to the Republican party, because they so often say the right words. Though the ideals and principles expressed by those words are summarily dismissed once in power. George W. Bush is a classic example, and unfortunately, many people believe the his rhetoric, and so the ideals of liberty and free markets are tainted by association.
    I agree, to an extent. Dubya is actually less consistent on free trade than was Bill Clinton, for instance. Clinton really bucked his party's line in that regard, to our benefit and to his credit.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    In practice the Republicans are worse for the economy than their words, whereas the Democrats are better for the economy than their words. Ultimately there is little difference between the two, despite the huge difference in rhetoric.
    How does 'On economic policy Democrats and Republicans are not as different as their rhetoric would indicate.' lead to 'there is little difference between the two'?

    Anyway, I would wager most libertarians who vote for a major party are doing it based on foreign policy. I'm not sure why you think most vote for Republicans, much less fall for Republican rhetoric. If they did they'd call themselves Republicans.
    I don't wanna!

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    How does 'On economic policy Democrats and Republicans are not as different as their rhetoric would indicate.' lead to 'there is little difference between the two'?
    Here is an article which captures my view, more or less. Here's a snippet:

    'Contrary to popular belief - and campaign rhetoric - the explosive growth of government has occurred under Democratic and Republican administrations alike. In truth, the political system is rigged to encourage such growth.'
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  6. #126
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Anyway, I would wager most libertarians who vote for a major party are doing it based on foreign policy. I'm not sure why you think most vote for Republicans, much less fall for Republican rhetoric. If they did they'd call themselves Republicans.
    Most libertarians I know lean Democrat, but because of social policy not foreign policy. But, the libertarians I know I think only call themselves such because they don't want the negative stigma of "liberals" and "conservatives" attached to them, they don't know much about politics.

  7. #127
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    Yeah, I agree that growth in government has occurred under both types of administrations, I still don't see how that makes the difference between the parties negligible.
    I don't wanna!

  8. #128
    Senior Member reason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    Yeah, I agree that growth in government has occurred under both types of administrations, I still don't see how that makes the difference between the parties negligible.
    My point is that the difference in practice is relatively small compared to the rhetoric. Whether or not that difference is 'negligible' i.e. not enough to sway a decision, is for each individual to decide.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  9. #129
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reason View Post
    My point is that the difference in practice is relatively small compared to the rhetoric.
    If their voting records count as practice, then the difference isn't that small.

  10. #130
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Also, what is wrong is that marginal income tax rates are too high for everyone (except those who do not pay income taxes; their rate is fine). "Too low compared to his employees" means that middle-class people pay way too much in taxes, not that the super-wealthy pay too little. It's not a difficult concept. Raising taxes on the wealthy may play for a lot of Americans, but 1) people making $250,000 a year often consider themselves "middle-class" or "upper-middle class" and mistakenly think they won't get pinched; and 2) a lot of people don't understand how the economy works and are filled with class envy. I'm sorry, but there is no way around that. If you're pissed off because a rich guy's income tax rate (which is already 10-20% higher than yours) is too low, then you're a serious classist and malcontent. That's a totally un-American attitude.
    This whole post is totally nuts. Do you actually believe this stuff or are you just shoveling rhetoric at me? I'm going to assume the later, because the post isn't close to reality in the slightest. In reality there are only two realistic options for who will become president: one guy with a tax plan that will help 20% of Americans more, and one guy with a tax plan that will help 80% of Americans more. That alone should make the choice obvious. Furthermore I am in the 80% demographic. Lastly I think that the plan that helps the 80% more will strengthen the economy more than the 20% plan, which will drag out our recession.

    One choice is clearly good for the majority. The other choice is merely giving money to rich people.

    Quote Originally Posted by reason
    On economic policy the Republicans are good and the Democrats are bad, at least with respect to words (usually). If Republicans lived up to their words, then the economy would be dandy, and if Democrats lived up to their words, then the economy would be in the shitter. However, both are lying scum. In practice the Republicans are worse for the economy than their words, whereas the Democrats are better for the economy than their words. Ultimately there is little difference between the two, despite the huge difference in rhetoric.
    This is pretty much it right here. Except lately Republicans are even worse than Democrats. This is why ideologies are in many ways useless. Well they are useful for the politician, but not the voter. Ideologies are used by politicians so they can get free votes without having to act accordingly. In reality Clinton is the president in my lifetime that had the best economic policies: NAFTA, generating a suplus, reducing the size of government, even paying down the debt a little, etc.... Republicans talk a good talk, but if you vote one in as President, then they see a blank check and run up a huge deficit.
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