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  1. #101
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    So are we in agreement that government should do something about all the negative market effects out there (price gouging, safety, insider trading, all that good stuff)?
    Price gouging? No.
    Safety? Be more specific.
    Insider trading? No, I'd rather just see the NYSE or whatever stock exchange blacklist anyone that gets involved in that.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #102
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    So are we in agreement that government should do something about all the negative market effects out there (price gouging, safety, insider trading, all that good stuff)?
    My question is, why does it have to be the government that does something about it at all?

    Define price gouging. Are you talking about "ridiculous mark-ups because the industry allows it" gouging, or "the hurricane is coming, so we're going to sell bottled water for $5/gal" gouging?

    Insider trading: let the industry take care of it, like ban the perpetrators from trading.

    Safety: Again, why should it be the government that does something about it? As much as I hate unions, unsafe working conditions for low pay are one of the key reasons that unions exist in the first place. If an employer doesn't want a union to occur, then they need to take it upon themselves to maintain working conditions that will not encourage a union to spring up.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  3. #103
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    My question is, why does it have to be the government that does something about it at all?
    No other entity has the power to check corporate power like the government. Unions and watchdogs are often powerless when matched against pure wealth and power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Define price gouging. Are you talking about "ridiculous mark-ups because the industry allows it" gouging, or "the hurricane is coming, so we're going to sell bottled water for $5/gal" gouging?

    Insider trading: let the industry take care of it, like ban the perpetrators from trading.

    Safety: Again, why should it be the government that does something about it? As much as I hate unions, unsafe working conditions for low pay are one of the key reasons that unions exist in the first place. If an employer doesn't want a union to occur, then they need to take it upon themselves to maintain working conditions that will not encourage a union to spring up.
    Why not let the government go after price gouging, insider trading, safety? There is really no other guarantee that any other entity has the power to stop these things. I could go into specifics about gouging and insider trading...but we both agree they are bad things.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    Cool, present evidence, show me how the democrats are just as much or even worse in their deception. You won't be able to, sorry, try though, it will be interesting to watch.
    He wont be able to cause like you have already proven you will refuse (just like the republicans your attacking) to see the evidence brought before you. It is common sense that people are selfish, greedy, corrupt individuals and if left to our own devices will do whatever we must to get what we want. This is no different just cause one sides beliefs are different, and if you feel that Democrats are less corrupt just cause they are who they are even after all the points that have been brought to you, then you are surely a child and ignorant of human nature. These Democrats you so highly adore have just decieved you just like die hard republicans are decieved by their respective party.

    Now what you should do is, get off this thread (before all the die hard Republican INTJs find your house and slaughter your family), actually take a look into a partys stands on every issue (not only R and D) and then make a decision without petty issues like "whos more corrupt than who" as a decideing factor. And stop beleiveing what everyone tells you.
    SDMF

  5. #105
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    petty issues like "whos more corrupt than who"

    hmmmm, something's not right about this.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    hmmmm, something's not right about this.
    Are you finding fault in my general statement? Or my lack of concern of the corruptability of mankind? If the latter, know I have none.
    SDMF

  7. #107
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Are you finding fault in my general statement? Or my lack of concern of the corruptability of mankind? If the latter, know I have none.
    I find fault with calling government corruption a petty issue, when it's obviously not. It's a huge issue.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Its so bad now that there is no stopping it at this point, I have no concern of the coruption in our own system. Even if we where to cauterize it from the system it would pop up again, its like a plague. We are only human, and power will always corrupt the powerful.

    If I was in power you can most definitely bet I would be takeing money under the table for kinds of reason and abuseing it.
    SDMF

  9. #109
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    Its so bad now that there is no stopping it at this point, I have no concern of the coruption in our own system. Even if we where to cauterize it from the system it would pop up again, its like a plague. We are only human, and power will always corrupt the powerful.
    Look at the government of places like Burma. It gets a lot worse. The US is actually one of the "good" nations in comparison.

    I don't get why people trash this country and government, yet still, seemingly blindly, enjoy living in one of the wealthiest nations in the world with one of the highest standards of living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hexis View Post
    If I was in power you can most definitely bet I would be takeing money under the table for kinds of reason and abuseing it.
    That's why we will never elect a Texan again..

  10. #110
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Why not pick something that most people actually care about? Obama's tax plan will help about 80% of Americans more than McCain's tax plan. Yet McCain says over and over that Obama will raise everyone's taxes. That is a flat lie and it gets repeated over and over in ads.

    Trade policy is something that is hardly ever mentioned. Perhaps if you are thinking McCain lies less you aren't counting the same lie repeated over and over and over?
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Sell away my friend. I think supply side economics is mostly crap. On top of that McCain's tax plan doesn't even make a lot of sense looking at it from a supply side perspective. If he really wanted to stimulate business, he'd lower the corporate tax rate. As it is he is simply giving a lot of money to really rich people.

    (Also I notice that you and Lateralus are split about government's effect on the economy. You think Obama will hurt it, while he thinks that government has hardly any effect at all.)
    Most government intervention into the economy hurts the economy. Raising taxes definitely does (cutting spending is the only effective way to balance the budget in the long-term). Also, I never stated my support for supply-side economics, so you will have to defend that assertion, or withdraw it. First of all, hardcore supply-siders usually argue that cutting marginal income tax rates on the wealthiest earners will INCREASE government revenue at certain levels. I don't believe this, unless we are talking about insanely high income tax rates (60% or more for the top bracket). Obviously, I don't want to increase government revenue at all. I want the revenue and the spending to drop. Secondly, cutting the income tax rate isn't "giving money to really rich people." It's THEIR money. You can't give someone something that already belongs to them. Thirdly, the corporate income tax rate should be slashed dramatically. However, that is a tough sell in a country so rich and so perverse that "corporation" is now a dirty word. If people saw the amount of revenue generated by the corporate income tax (and understood how little revenue would be lost by slashing the rate, and, possibly, increasing economic growth), they'd be all for it. Basically, you're mistaking my argument in favor of more laissez-faire policies for Reagan-era voodoo economics. They aren't related.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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