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  1. #31
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Losing the right to vote is part of the punishment. The punishment symbolically settles the score. Once the punishment is over, convicted fellons should have the same rights as any other citizen.
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Sex offenders have a higher rate of recidivism than other violent criminals.
    Maybe, but I'm skeptical of that, and statistics wouldn't persuade me, the reason being that I see sex offenders getting caught more than other criminals.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I feel the stress of a serious debate coming on. Oh, I do love it so.

    That would mean, fundamentally, that there is a one-strike-you're-out policy in leading a sane, normal life. In that reality, people get drunk and fuck up, and they're ruined socially, economically, and therefore probably emotionally--This may make them more of a criminal. I say serve your sentence, and have another go (unless you're an obvious psychotic).
    You know, there's a fine line between the guy who gets hammered and wakes up with a seventeen year old girl he's never seen before and the baby-sitter who likes to touch little Timmy in that oh-so-special way. That line is about as fine and narrow as the Grand Canyon. They aren't the same and shouldn't be treated the same. But if little Timmy's sitter won't get the death penalty, then I damn sure want to know who it is before that person gets near my kid.

    Because little Timmy's sitter is very likely to do it again. Drunk guy? Not so much. I don't need to see him on a list for picking up an underage hooker.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    You know, there's a fine line between the guy who gets hammered and wakes up with a seventeen year old girl he's never seen before and the baby-sitter who likes to touch little Timmy in that oh-so-special way. That line is about as fine and narrow as the Grand Canyon. They aren't the same and shouldn't be treated the same. But if little Timmy's sitter won't get the death penalty, then I damn sure want to know who it is before that person gets near my kid.

    Because little Timmy's sitter is very likely to do it again. Drunk guy? Not so much. I don't need to see him on a list for picking up an underage hooker.
    In specific cases such as these, I tend to agree. But Law is a system of generalities. I do not approve of universal sex offender registries, and if you get specific, the question is "where is the line?" I don't know.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Why? Do you feel that sex offender lists shouldn't exist, or do you feel that we should never let them out?
    I think scarlet letters are counter-productive. I also believe that punishment shouldn't be indefinite. When we release someone from prison, what do we expect them to do? Reintegrate into society? How can we expect that when we stack the deck against them? If they're so dangerous, don't let them out in the first place.

    To answer your questions directly, I don't think they should exist. And I don't know if we should let them out or not. That's a complicated question. Those lists do a pretty poor job of distinguishing between real predators and the 19 year old kid who slept with with 16 year old girlfriend. I think they do a lot more harm than good. Most people probably have the impression that they accomplish something, but I'd like to see what it is that actually accomplish.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think scarlet letters are counter-productive. I also believe that punishment shouldn't be indefinite. When we release someone from prison, what do we expect them to do? Reintegrate into society? How can we expect that when we stack the deck against them? If they're so dangerous, don't let them out in the first place.

    To answer your questions directly, I don't think they should exist. And I don't know if we should let them out or not. That's a complicated question. Those lists do a pretty poor job of distinguishing between real predators and the 19 year old kid who slept with with 16 year old girlfriend. I think they do a lot more harm than good. Most people probably have the impression that they accomplish something, but I'd like to see what it is that actually accomplish.
    The flaw is in not distinguishing between the 19 year old banging his underage girlfriend and the child molesters. The only thing that those lists accomplish are giving my nieces a good idea of who they need to avoid in the neighborhood. And, you know, I'm fine with that.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  7. #37
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I approve of sex offender registries because Enyo is right. The repeat rate is high for that demographic and no way would I want to move in next door to some guy who's a convicted pedophile/rapist. Again, not the drunk dude who wakes up with an under-ager, but actual predators who systematically target, stalk, lure and prey upon others in a pathological manner. They should have warnings like any dangerous animal. Beware of dog.

    Violent offenders walk all the time - the prisons are full, the legal system is warping under strain, and people slip through. I think non-violent felons should regain their right to vote. Violent offenders, never, even if they're so lucky as to slither through the cracks.
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  8. #38
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    The flaw is in not distinguishing between the 19 year old banging his underage girlfriend and the child molesters. The only thing that those lists accomplish are giving my nieces a good idea of who they need to avoid in the neighborhood. And, you know, I'm fine with that.
    How effective is this, exactly? Especially considering the fact that most sexual crimes occur within the family.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #39
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Once their sentence is over they should get the right to vote. I don't see any reason why a person should not have their right to vote returned after they have served their time.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    The only thing that those lists accomplish are giving my nieces a good idea of who they need to avoid in the neighborhood. And, you know, I'm fine with that.
    Bear in mind the negative consequences as well. Everything has a downside; people tend to disregard that all to often... /my advice to all

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