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  1. #41
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    And billions of American dollars. I think Israel is great, but let's not be triumphalist here. That country gets very special treatment from the West and has gotten it in since Day 1.
    Definitely. The reasoning seems simple as to why this is the case:

    1. We have a large Pro-Israel lobby, and they push for support. Not supporting Israel comes off as Anti-Semitic, so politicians are happy to oblige. The large Jewish population in South Florida also gives Jews a sizable hand in elections, which results in politicians not wanting to risk offending them. Also, as Jews are generally among the wealthier people around, they have more ability to "get what they want" politically.

    2. Israel is a Democratic country that's very friendly to us in an area where we don't have a ton of allies. As such, it becomes very valuable, from a military and political perspective because of that. (See South Korea and Taiwan for other examples.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  2. #42
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Yes, just like many other countries. What's your point?

    All I know is that if it meant the end of extremism and a price only the Islamic world had to pay, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
    Why the hate-on for Islam?
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Why the hate-on for Islam?
    Let's see here...walking eyesores, terrorism every day, demanding special treatment from everyone around, and using their religion founded by a pedophile (he had sex with a 9 year old girl) warlord (he led an army to conquer) as an excuse for all of that, so I say BS.

    If anyone else acted the way Muslims did without calling their reasoning religious, they'd be ridiculed. But because Islam is labeled as a religion, all of the sudden, we have to make an effort to understand these people and not discriminate them based on "religion".

    I say we pierce their religious veil just like we pierce the corporate veil.

    To me, anyone that wears a headscarf is blindly believing in 1400 year old nonsense and shouldn't be let near any job which requires independent thought. Anyone that takes five timeouts during a day to pray shouldn't be let near any position which requires a time commitment.

    Religion is NOT a free pass to act like assholes. Jews have realized this, Christians have realized this, and just about every single religion in the world has realized this, except for Islam. No, they can't adapt. Everyone has to make special permissions for them.

    People that kill while shouting ALLAH AKBAR aren't Muslims, no...they're "extremists". Well, where the heck are the extremists from the other 80% of the world's population? Gee, that's a tough one.

    Islam is BS. If practitioners would actually practice their religion PRIVATELY and not use it for political gains, I'd be tolerant. But this is bullshit.

    Yes, there are good Muslims that actually practice their religion in a respectable way. Too bad.

    You shouldn't judge how good a woman looks when she gets dolled up, but by how she looks after the Saturday wild night party without her makeup and her hair done and all that.

    So too should you not judge a religion by the rational people, but by how bad it can get.

    That's the cornerstone of Risk Management. Nobody gives a damn how much money you can make off of a venture if you're going to get wiped out if it goes wrong. So too do I not care how many good Muslims are in this world. I'll judge each one on a case by case basis. It does nothing to absolve their religion.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  4. #44
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    *snippage of a bunch of ignorance*
    I love seeing rabid bigotry first thing in the morning.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  5. #45
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    I love seeing rabid bigotry first thing in the morning.
    I am reluctant to defend bigotry, but I cannot help but notice that the world hasn't exactly been racked lately with violent uprisings by radical Zoroastrians either.

    What I'm saying is, Ilya may be misinterpreting the matter out of ignorance, but it's not because there's no correlation to observe.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I am reluctant to defend bigotry, but I cannot help but notice that the world hasn't exactly been racked lately with violent uprisings by radical Zoroastrians either.

    What I'm saying is, Ilya may be misinterpreting the matter out of ignorance, but it's not because there's no correlation to observe.
    I'm not disagreeing that there is currently more violent episodes perpetrated by Islamic extremists in the name of religion than any other group at this time. I have no objection to that, because that is well-publicized information, whether it is accurate or not. (I am not saying it is or isn't accurate. I'm saying that if there are Christian extremists out there killing Muslims, we're not hearing about it.)

    My only issue with Ilya is that she is misinterpreting the matter out of ignorance. However, to so ardently defend that ignorance and wear it with such pride moves it strictly into the realm of bigotry.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  7. #47
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    First, I am a HE. What am I misinterpreting out of ignorance? I'm not talking about historical body count, because historically, the Christians have long LEARNED that trying to convert people by the sword doesn't really work, and we haven't seen extremist Christianity in CENTURIES. I'm talking about a 21st century body count.

    Sure, there are some really stupid preachers like Jeremiah Wright. However, while Christians might preach fire and brimstone and death and apocalypse to those that want to listen, it's Islam that tries to make everyone accomodate it and claim that it's a religion of peace--and it will kill anyone that disagrees.

    I have friends that are Muslims that observe Islam the way everone willing to give it the benefit of the doubt does--as a monotheistic religion with its own customs, that are tolerant of others' beliefs and ideologies and all of that.

    That does nothing to paint Islam in a better light.

    To me, all religions are bullshit that were made up thousands of years ago by people who were secularly more stupid than a fourth grader is today. However, since then, all other religions have practiced in peace and not flown planes into buildings, detonated bombs in Israeli restaurants, or just caused all sorts of massacres in places that I can't really be bothered to remember the exact names of.

    If Islam wasn't making such a horrible name for itself, I'd have nothing against it. But, given the numbers in my lifetime, Islam TRIES to make itself hated. Sorry, I'm no idealist. I don't give religions the benefit of the doubt. I see observations, and I draw conclusions. Conclusion? All religions are bullshit, but at least they don't bother anyone. Islam simply needs to be ostracized.
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  8. #48
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    One that focuses on progression at a world scale, and I mean industrial progress and construction such as the angle by which Ilya is coming from (or so I assume), I can understand why Islam comes off as highly perplexing for that type of individual. And why wouldn't it, for the reasons outlined in his/her post among other underlying facts that provide a logical basis of a particular premise.

    However, that should be whole different subject matter to that of religious beliefs. It's not wise to deem a religion false or founded by a peadophile whatsoever - simply because there are a collective within the Islamic society that are willing to make belief a personal matter (they respect their Islamic belief system) and politics as well as other subjects as a complete separate issue. Will you then, say, these very rational and reasonable individuals follow a religion founded by a "peadophile"?

    This is how I am able to see Ilya's point and it's more or less mine too, with a few exceptions.

    Anyhow, back on topic - I don't think binational will bring peace between both sides, not unless a few barriers are overcome, but that requires both sides willing to co-operate. Easier said and imagined than done. However, a binational will reduce the level of hostility.

  9. #49
    Oberon
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    Oooh, time for popcorn!


  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Frankly, I regret the loss of Calais.

    And whenever I meet a Frenchie on the bus, particularly if she is pretty, I ask - no demand - she return Calais.

    For reasons I don't understand, I get a sweet smile and a patient explanation that Calais is French.

    Naturally I demur and our conversation continues over milk coffee and croissants. And we reach an agreement in principle over Calais.

    But not so with Yankees, pretty or not. Naturally I demand to know what happened to Les Darcy and to Phar Lap.

    All I get is a strange look as though I have lost my mind.

    As I am highly suggestible, I do feel I have lost my mind. Then I think I should mention Calais, then I realise that would even be worse.

    And worse still, there is no milk coffee and croissants or an agreement in principle.

    And I am, as you know, a man of principle.
    Somehow, this is also the post of the week, along with your other post of the week.

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