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    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Default The War On Women Moves to Restrooms

    The War On Women Moves to Restrooms

    Federal education authorities, staking out their firmest position yet on an increasingly contentious issue, found Monday that an Illinois school district violated anti-discrimination laws when it did not allow a transgender student who identifies as a girl and participates on a girls’ sports team to change and shower in the girls’ locker room without restrictions.
    I don't believe it would've bothered me if a female who identified as a male got into the shower; it'd feel strange, but I wouldn't have gotten angry about it. Would females get upset if they were forced to shower with a Caitlyn Jenner? I don't know.

    Is this the right decision? I don't think it is. It is discriminatory, but restrooms are by definition discriminatory. In the past, discrimination based on gender in restrooms was considered appropriate; the distinction should be made based on the type of genitals one possess and not on a person's state of mind. That was never explicitly made clear (because it's obvious) but most people understood it as such.
    Liberty means the ability to say "No thanks, perhaps later. I'm gonna go take a nap now."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Would females get upset if they were forced to shower with a Caitlyn Jenner?.
    Is this a thing in high school gyms where people actually shower with one another or no? I never participated in a sports team. Seems a little odd to me to shower collectively to begin with.
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    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by /DG/
    Is this a thing in high school gyms where people actually shower with one another or no? I never participated in a sports team. Seems a little odd to me to shower collectively to begin with.
    Yes, and also for regular physical education classes. People get sweaty and then they take showers in the communal shower stalls after class before changing.
    Liberty means the ability to say "No thanks, perhaps later. I'm gonna go take a nap now."

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    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    The War On Women Moves to Restrooms



    I don't believe it would've bothered me if a female who identified as a male got into the shower; it'd feel strange, but I wouldn't have gotten angry about it. Would females get upset if they were forced to shower with a Caitlyn Jenner? I don't know.

    Is this the right decision? I don't think it is. It is discriminatory, but restrooms are by definition discriminatory. In the past, discrimination based on gender in restrooms was considered appropriate; the distinction should be made based on the type of genitals one possess and not on a person's state of mind. That was never explicitly made clear (because it's obvious) but most people understood it as such.
    Not this one. This is the most stupid, biggest waste of time argument there is. Just use the bathroom you identify with.

    I mean keep right on going crazy with these terrible bathroom problems NC and Mississippi. Don't worry about how shitty you perform in nearly every health, education and economic category that exists. God damn this country, grow the fuck up.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Sometimes I pee in the bathroom. With my penis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I don't believe it would've bothered me if a female who identified as a male got into the shower; it'd feel strange, but I wouldn't have gotten angry about it. Would females get upset if they were forced to shower with a Caitlyn Jenner? I don't know.
    I've actually never seen communal showers in female change rooms, either at gyms, schools, universities, etc. All the ones I've been to have private cubicles and a degree of privacy. Honestly, I'd probably feel uncomfortable sharing a naked communal shower with anyone I didn't know well. I think if you're looking at someone else's genitals in a change room, you're not minding your own business. I have no problems sharing one with trans women.
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    Sweet Summer Child yama's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure girls don't want a trans guy taking T who looks very much like a guy to show up in their restroom just because he was born with a vagina.

    You've already shared a bathroom with a trans person before and you were just fine. All of you. I guarantee it.

    The only war on women I see going on in regards to the bathroom issue is the war on trans women.
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    Senior Member Ursa's Avatar
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    I work out six days per week and I frequently see a trans guy (girl? sorry) in my locker room. Nothing happens.

    Well, then it's no big deal. I take martial arts (kung fu), so it's not like they're a threat to me anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingrid in grids View Post
    I've actually never seen communal showers in female change rooms, either at gyms, schools, universities, etc. All the ones I've been to have private cubicles and a degree of privacy. Honestly, I'd probably feel uncomfortable sharing a naked communal shower with anyone I didn't know well. I think if you're looking at someone else's genitals in a change room, you're not minding your own business. I have no problems sharing one with trans women.
    The only place I've seen communal showers are in Korean spas. I frankly do not see a viable solution to the pre-op Trans issue there, and one of my best friends is mtf. You simply cannot override biology in some situations. There are separate floors divided by shared genitalia and everyone walks around and bathes completely nude.

    I think though in terms of rest rooms, one of the more enlightened signs I've seen are in a restaurant in Santa Monica, where women is a picture of a person sitting and men is a person standing, rather than any gender specific words or clothing, just these pictures that suggest if you sit to pee, come here and if you stand, go there - I think that's more gender fluid as an approach to bathrooms.

    Or unisex bathrooms. Whatever.

    As for high school showers as long as privacy is respected by separate cubicles, I don't see why this should be an issue. ..however, I also take an issue with schools spending special money to accommodate Trans persons when the same schools don't even have enough money for books or to pay teachers, I find it a bit of an upper middle class privileged liberal hypocrisy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 21lux View Post
    I'm pretty sure girls don't want a trans guy taking T who looks very much like a guy to show up in their restroom just because he was born with a vagina.

    You've already shared a bathroom with a trans person before and you were just fine. All of you. I guarantee it.

    The only war on women I see going on in regards to the bathroom issue is the war on trans women.
    Some feminists would disagree with you. Women who were born biologically female have a very different early socialization experience than trans women, which is where the idea of continued male privilege can prevail...it depends on the person. My friend isn't like that. Absolutely no trace of white male privilege, so it shouldn't be assumed that all trans women have this issue...but frankly I think Caitlin Jenner is a shining example of what these feminists are wary about. Very privileged, probably narcissistic, I don't especially like her tbh, anymore than any other Kardashian. The adopting a baby at 60 after having a family that has been exploited on reality TV (Kylie Jenner is an accident waiting to happen, a clear and present psychological mess of a young person) ...does not sit well with me.

    Young women also are just starting their periods and so may be extra defensive about this biological process and their privacy as biological females.

    I take a position that appears to neither be liberal nor conservative because honestly I can see some truth on both sides (though not to the extent of politics in NC or MS).
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