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  1. #21
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Obama. (I hate politics, but it's a necessary evil.)
    I can't tell if you're being serious. You think he hates America? Why?

  2. #22
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    Because...*stomps around for a while* Shut up! lol. Just look at his rhetoric. CHANGE everything. There are great things about America, and Obama doesn't want to hear about it.

  3. #23
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Because...*stomps around for a while* Shut up! lol. Just look at his rhetoric. CHANGE everything. There are great things about America, and Obama doesn't want to hear about it.
    ?

    No politician ever goes into office saying "let's leave stuff the same!" and there's good reason for that. With how pessimistic people are feeling right now, it would be especially silly for one to talk about that. It's not just an applealing ploy, it's actually a practical assessment of priorities. I wouldn't want anyone that wants to keep things the same right now.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #24
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    They say they don't want change whenever things are looking up (result of things mostly outside their control anyway).

  5. #25
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    They say they don't want change whenever things are looking up (result of things mostly outside their control anyway).
    Hah. They just call it "progress" instead of "change" but the first one implies the second. People don't win by promising more of the same, and especially not by pining over the past.

    That being said, of course they are less likely to talk about change when things are looking up, because you don't fix what isn't broken. Now, whether or not things were as good as they looked... that's a different issue.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #26
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    We obviously have very different ideas about what the ideal should be, so must simply disagree forever.

  7. #27
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Good point.

    Mind giving us your critique of Libertarianism?
    I've been pretty vocal about some drawbacks of modern libertarian theory, have I not? Environmental policy can be incoherent (i.e., "sue everybody" isn't completely satisfactory). The LP has no interest in being a legitimate political force, and the one time they DO pick an establishment small-government conservative as a presidential candidate it's Bob Fucking Barr. Paleolibertarians are too hung up on tradition. Many libertarians are completely irascible and contrarian for its own sake. Some of the Beltway libertarians are too cozy with Big Business.

    See, libertarianism is an ideological movement, so it's pretty tough to critique it as an adherent of it. However, I DO critique the negative traits I see of libertarians. I could do much better critiquing an individual (like, say, Ron Paul) than I would critiquing what I believe. However, Obama and McCain don't have purely ideological beliefs. There are plenty of examples of each saying one thing and doing another. Even if you are a fan, you can look at their records and see that. I'd love for someone to say, "You know, I know that Obama portrayed NAFTA (and, by extension, Hillary Clinton) as bad for America, and that's not true, but I still like him, anyway." You never get that.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #28
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I'd love for someone to say, "You know, I know that Obama portrayed NAFTA (and, by extension, Hillary Clinton) as bad for America, and that's not true, but I still like him, anyway." You never get that.
    Yep, in the other Palin thread, I made a point to say that I didn't like what she was saying about "Big Oil". I haven't seen an Obama supporter say one negative thing about the guy.

  9. #29
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I can't tell if you're being serious. You think he hates America? Why?
    Probably an accumulation of little things like attending Jeremiah Wright's church for twenty years, being married to a woman who has not been proud of her country in her adult life untill now, hanging out with admitted and unrepentant domestic terrorists, being embarrased to wear flag lapel pins, belittling just about every aspect of American culture that sets us apart from other rich democracies, etc.

    Basically, one gets the impression that Obama loves what he thinks America has the potential to be (basically a more multi-ethnic Europe with vastly more resources at the disposal of an enlightened government through which progressive advances can be made) rather than love his country for the things that set America apart from other countries. No one is arguing that "American Exceptionalism" is always good, but I would much prefer a President that thought the balance was on the side of the United States.

    I would not be willing to say Obama "hates" America, but I get the distinct impression that the United States is simply a canvas and materials for Obama to work with.

  10. #30
    Senior Member kuranes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I'd like to see a similar thread about Obama and his lies thus far from an Obama fan.
    I remember creating a thread about "criticizing your own platform" on INTPC a couple years ago. And I started it off by criticizing some liberal talking points, but the thread had very little participation. Still, I agree it's a good idea. Perhaps I'll start another one here.

    Meanwhile, here is the latest article criticizing Bush .
    BBC NEWS | Americas | US 'spying' on Iraqi leadership
    "The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them that they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
    Reichsfuhrer Herman Goering at the Nuremburg trials.

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