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  1. #141
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Did I say they did? I was talking about the Economist and UN quality of life rankings, not GDP. GDP is only one factor when figuring out a nations quality of life.
    GDP is a major factor in those calculations. Your comments implied that welfare states would also have the highest GDP, which might lead some people to believe that welfare programs add to GDP.

  2. #142
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    GDP is a major factor in those calculations. Your comments implied that welfare states would also have the highest GDP, which might lead some people to believe that welfare programs add to GDP.
    I presume he was trying to disprove the myth that welfare states have low GDP, not prove that welfare states create higher GDPs.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #143
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I presume he was trying to disprove the myth that welfare states have low GDP, not prove that welfare states create higher GDPs.
    His figures neither prove, nor disprove any such assertions.

  4. #144
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I think you put too much emphasis on negative incentive, by the way. May be people would really have incentive in this country if they actually thought they had a shot at upward mobility.
    They don't? I grew up in a glorified trailer park. Sure, they were double wides, and everyone lived on an average of an acre of land, but it was a Florida trailer park, nonetheless. Now, I live in a nice house.

    John Edwards grew up the son of a steel worker or something like that.

    Oprah Winfrey grew up poor and molested.

    Barrack Obama didn't exactly have a wealthy upbringing.

    Someone on this board posted about coming over from Russia as a child with two suitcases.

    Clearly, the opportunities are there. The trick is, you have to work for them and take them. They won't (and shouldn't) be handed to you on a platter.

    This isn't to say that I wouldn't like to see post-secondary education become a bit easier to obtain, or be a bit more affordable. But if it were too easy, it wouldn't be so meaningful to those who have the drive to seek it.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  5. #145
    Senior Member Maabus1999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Nomad, if i say some good stuff in a speech, can i have your support for president too?
    You aren't making fun of Obama now are you?

  6. #146
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    His figures neither prove, nor disprove any such assertions.
    Well, it is actually pretty easy to show that there are welfare states with high GDPs, high GDP PCs, and GDP growth rates that are at least better than the USA's. So that would disprove that all welfare states will have GDP trouble.

    All welfare states are bad at generating GDP. Or, all welfate states are GDP impaired. Or, all A are B. If we say that all A are B, but then introduce some A that are not B, then it obviously proves the first assertion wrong.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  7. #147
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    To get a good view of what effect welfare states have on poverty look at the "Effects on poverty" graph here: Welfare state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  8. #148
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I liked this part of his speech.

    America did not tell the millions of men and women who came from every country in the world and who--with their hands, their intelligence and their heart--built the greatest nation in the world: "Come, and everything will be given to you." She said: "Come, and the only limits to what you'll be able to achieve will be your own courage and your own talent." America embodies this extraordinary ability to grant each and every person a second chance. -Nicolas Sarkozy

  9. #149
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, it is actually pretty easy to show that there are welfare states with high GDPs, high GDP PCs, and GDP growth rates that are at least better than the USA's. So that would disprove that all welfare states will have GDP trouble.
    Nice strawman. I don't recall anyone saying that.

  10. #150
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    They don't? [etc. etc.]
    Since the 70s the vast majority of all wealth developed in the USA has gone to the top 20 richest percentile of the country. So, that implies bad odds that you will get much richer, especially proportionately richer, in your lifetime if you are starting from the bottom steps.

    Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.
    Long-term problems include inadequate investment in economic infrastructure, rapidly rising medical and pension costs of an aging population, sizable trade and budget deficits, and stagnation of family income in the lower economic groups.
    So says the CIA.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...s/us.html#Econ
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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