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  1. #101
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    She didn't say much in terms of policy, imo. She did unequivocally state her support for offshore drilling, I guess. I am now officially horrified by the Republican ticket. I was wary of McCain, but I could swallow the thought of him. Palin, however, freaks me the -fuck- out. I can sometimes get fiscal conservatism, but social conservatism gives me hives.
    And my voting choices are hellishly miserable, since I am fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

    The conservative candidates are too damned conservative, and I fear the loss of rights that may come from it.

    The liberal candidates are too damned liberal, and I fear turning into a nanny state.

    There is no major party candidate that doesn't make me ill. I really wish that Romney had won the GOP ticket, or at least made VP. He was the least offensive option from the GOP ticket.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  2. #102
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    And my voting choices are hellishly miserable, since I am fiscally conservative but socially liberal.

    The conservative candidates are too damned conservative, and I fear the loss of rights that may come from it.

    The liberal candidates are too damned liberal, and I fear turning into a nanny state.
    Economic liberalism equates to a nanny state?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #103
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Balki?
    I dunno, whoever the bikini babe is in post 91.

    If you squint just right, you can't see the cellulite.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Eonomic liberalism equates to a nanny state?
    The desire for universal health care, for bigger government interfering in American lives in more ways? Yeah, that's just one step closer to the nanny state.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  5. #105
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    I don't think there's any correlation between liberalism and bigger government.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #106
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    Nanny state=:steam:

    I'm as tired of the gun control debate as the religion debate, but I will say that the legal right to protect what I may value with deadly force is something I hold dear (there are no natural rights; we have what we take or what we're given). It's as much symbolic of freedom as it is a much-desired physical tactic. I'm not always armed, but the right to be is very important.

  7. #107
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't think there's any correlation between liberalism and bigger government.
    There is, I promise.

    I forget who said it, but it was once famously said that "any government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take away everything you have."

    And that's how it works.

  8. #108
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I dunno, whoever the bikini babe is in post 91.

    If you squint just right, you can't see the cellulite.
    I honestly don't know whose body that is, but if she sat on your face I doubt you'd notice such trivialities.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  9. #109
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    I honestly don't know whose body that is, but if she sat on your face I doubt you'd notice such trivialities.
    I try to refrain from eating doctrinaire liberals.

    They're too bitter.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't think there's any correlation between liberalism and bigger government.
    Prior to George W, I would disagree with you. Liberal/Democratic governments = lots of federally managed social programs = need for a larger government to oversee those larger social programs.

    Do you realize how many government employees it would take to run this universal health care system if they do it like Canada does? I have tried to find the numbers, but my best guess would be 1000 people just in the role of MSP. I suspect I am grossly underestimating, but that would include just the MSP folk: call center agents, judging by the wait, I'm going to guess 500. Average call center is 1:20 ratio for supervisors, so... 25 supervisors. Quality assurance, an average of 1:40 ratio, so 13 QA. An operations manager. A... Oh, hell, just looking at the call center aspect alone, I have grossly underestimated. There are a minimum of 600 just involved with answering the phones.

    So, figure a minimum of 3000 government employees at various levels handling this just in British Columbia. BC has a population of 4.1 million. 4.1 mil \3000 =

    1 MSP employee for every 1367 people.

    According to https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/us.html
    as of July 2007, the estimated population was 301,139,947.

    Assuming the same ratio, that comes out to over 220,000 jobs required for managing a universal health care. The government would ultimately be paying for those 220,000 jobs with our tax dollars, whether it be because they employ the agents required to manage the roll, or whether it's because they outsource it to a company like one that I used to work for.

    This is, of course, based on the assumption that my figures are correct for the number required in British Columbia. However, I doubt that. If anything, I believe that I have underestimated in an effort to keep my numbers conservative.

    Any way you slice it, 220,000 new government jobs definitely fits the definition of bigger government.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

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