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  1. #71
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Now, that's just silly.
    Why? If my mom were uber-conservative and opposed birth control, I sure as hell wouldn't talk to her about sex. Other, of course, than to tell her that I'm not doing it if she asked.

    I'd bet that her kid did the same thing, until it was time to tell mom that "surprise, you're going to be a grandma"
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    *groans* Do they not have access to birth control in Alaska? Or is it just that it's so darned cold and boring there that pretty much all teen agers can do with their time is boink?

    Gotta say, maybe a less conservative mother might have prevented this.
    Meh

    The issue is being a conservative christian and believing in abstinence. Theoretically, there's no need to tell their kids about protection because they will definitely wait until marriage.

  3. #73
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Why? If my mom were uber-conservative and opposed birth control, I sure as hell wouldn't talk to her about sex. Other, of course, than to tell her that I'm not doing it if she asked.

    I'd bet that her kid did the same thing, until it was time to tell mom that "surprise, you're going to be a grandma"
    Daughters of "uber-liberal" moms get pregnant too. It's a flimsy connection.
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  4. #74
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Someone I know put it this way:

    "I'm pro-choice. I, personally believe that abortion is wrong. I believe that it is murder. But I do not believe that I have the right to impose my own views of reproduction on someone else."
    Yeah, that is completely illogical. I can see how one would make the concession to society that many people do NOT feel the same way, but if you TRULY believe abortion is murder, I don't see how you can feel that it should be legal. That just is beyond the pale. I hope that this person doesn't actually believe that abortion is murder, but rather simply feels an innate repulsion from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Meh

    The issue is being a conservative christian and believing in abstinence. Theoretically, there's no need to tell their kids about protection because they will definitely wait until marriage.
    We've already established that that was not the case here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Why? If my mom were uber-conservative and opposed birth control, I sure as hell wouldn't talk to her about sex. Other, of course, than to tell her that I'm not doing it if she asked.

    I'd bet that her kid did the same thing, until it was time to tell mom that "surprise, you're going to be a grandma"
    Sarah Palin doesn't oppose birth control, by her own admission.
    Last edited by MacGuffin; 09-02-2008 at 10:39 AM.
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  5. #75
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Ok, I see you've been using the term "legal right" all along, so I see what you mean now I think:

    Feminism is normally against removing legal rights.
    Pro-Life feminists want to remove this legal right.
    Therefore pro-life feminists can't really be considered feminists (or at least they're a strange kind of feminists.)

    Am I right?

    That logic works, but I think the first premise is a bit too simple. Feminists are normally against moving legal rights, but not because they're legal rights. They seem instead to be led by what they perceive as universal human rights. Whenever those universal rights line up with legal rights, they defend the legal rights. When they don't, they try to change the legal rights.

    If we change the first premise, the logic of the pro-life feminists is:
    Feminism is giving women universal human rights and defending these.
    Abortion is murder.
    Being able to murder is not an universal human right.
    The right to live is an universal human right.
    Therefore it's logical to prevent abortion.

    Whereas the more common feminist logic goes:
    Feminism is giving women universal human rights and defending these.
    Abortion is not murder.
    Authority over ones own body is a universal right.
    Therefore it's logical to defend the legal right to adoption.
    I'd just change "Feminism is normally against removing legal rights" to "Feminism is normally for maintaining and increasing legal rights pertaining to women, not getting rid of them."

  6. #76
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Yeah, that is completely illogical. I can see how one would make the concession to society that many people do NOT feel the same way, but if you TRULY believe abortion is murder, I don't see how you can feel that it should be legal. That just is beyond the pale. I hope that this person doesn't actually believe that abortion is murder, but rather simply feels an innate repulsion from it.
    She feels that it is murder from a religious standpoint. She believes that all life is sacred, and life begins at conception. However, she's pagan and doesn't expect everyone to share her views. *shrugs* It's her view, and it works for her.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  7. #77
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    She feels that it is murder from a religious standpoint. She believes that all life is sacred, and life begins at conception. However, she's pagan and doesn't expect everyone to share her views. *shrugs* It's her view, and it works for her.
    Fair enough. I think it's inconsistent, but this is an issue that falls outside the bounds of formal logic for many people.
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  8. #78
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Yeah, that is completely illogical. I can see how one would make the concession to society that many people do NOT feel the same way, but if you TRULY believe abortion is murder, I don't see how you can feel that it should be legal. That just is beyond the pale. I hope that this person doesn't actually believe that abortion is murder, but rather simply feels an innate repulsion from it.
    Lots of people believe putting people to death is murder, yet they support the death penalty.

  9. #79
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Lots of people believe putting people to death is murder, yet they support the death penalty.
    Then they support murder, too. Good for them.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #80
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Then they support murder, too. Good for them.
    Are they being illogical like the pro-choice person who believes abortion is murder apparently is?

    Neither are, because not everyone believes murder is always wrong.

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