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  1. #51
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous View Post
    This is the kid that knocked her up:

    She picked a winner, alright!
    The picture just screams "GREAT FATHER!"

    Admission: there a lot of pictures of me that are just as bad as that, if not worse. And I was older than this young man when they were taken. Fortunately, I am no one's dad yet.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #52
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    No, that doesn't work. If abortion is murder (and that is what these people believe) and you do not have the right to murder, then there is no right to have an abortion. That is the whole point. The right either exists or does not. It is not dependent upon the law. That is the reverse. You make the law because of the right (or lack thereof). Legality or illegality doesn't determine whether or not something is a right.
    I'm talking about legal rights, which exist whether or not you believe in them.

    There is a legal right in the US to be able to abort, pro-lifers don't believe there should be a legal right to abortion, so they want to take it away.

    Whether or not there is a natural or human right to abort, or even if natural rights exist, is another debate.

  3. #53
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carebear View Post
    Gotta agree with p_m. Your logic only works if everybody agreed abortion doesn't equal murder.
    Legally it doesn't, that's all I'm pointing out. Whether abortion does or doesn't equal murder is another debate.

  4. #54
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I'm talking about legal rights, which exist whether or not you believe in them.

    There is a legal right in the US to be able to abort, pro-lifers don't believe there should be a legal right to abortion, so they want to take it away.
    You're trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Something does not become "a right" simply because it is legal. There are all kinds of restrictions on abortion currently, and abortion could be made illegal by act of Congress, if the Supreme Court didn't overturn the law. If abortion were a right, as you assert, then it cannot be abridged. Obviously, the government abridges rights all the time in reality, but still, legality does not equal rights.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #55
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You're trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Something does not become "a right" simply because it is legal.
    oh man, it doesn't become a "right", it becomes a "legal right". Don't you understand what legal rights versus natural rights are?

  6. #56
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    oh man, it doesn't become a "right", it becomes a "legal right". Don't you understand what legal rights versus natural rights are?
    How can something be a "right" if it can be voted away, isn't universal, etc.? I know the concept about which you are talking, but something that is condoned legally doesn't rise to the level of a right, properly defined. I believe in natural rights, obviously, but a lot of our "legal" rights are common law, as well (due process, for instance). However, a right can't be legislated.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #57
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    You're really rocking that red herring with the legal vs. natural thing. I'm willing to bet p_m knows exactly what the difference is. The thing is, it doesn't really matter in this context because pro-life feminists would not consider the legal access to abortion to be valid in the first place. They would consider it a miscarriage of justice (no pun intended) that Roe v. Wade ever set the precedent of legal abortion. They would favor protecting the natural rights of the unborn by giving them legal protection, just as abolitionists favored protecting the natural rights of slaves by giving them legal protection.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  8. #58
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    How can something be a "right" if it can be voted away, isn't universal, etc.? I know the concept about which you are talking, but something that is condoned legally doesn't rise to the level of a right, properly defined. I believe in natural rights, obviously, but a lot of our "legal" rights are common law, as well (due process, for instance). However, a right can't be legislated.
    Legal rights are rights based in law.

    rights -- in conformity with fact, reason, truth, or some standard or principle; correct: the right solution; the right answer.

    For legal rights, the standard or principal is obviously the legal system.


    We both know legal rights exist, apparently you rather call them something else, that's fine.

  9. #59
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    The thing is, it doesn't really matter in this context because pro-life feminists would not consider the legal access to abortion to be valid in the first place.
    Maybe if the pro-life feminist doesn't believe in the rule of law. Ethically, sure, they can consider it not valid.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Maybe if the pro-life feminist doesn't believe in the rule of law. Ethically, sure, they can consider it not valid.
    They don't have to not believe in the rule of law to consider the law invalid. Some people consider their own moral code to supercede the law. I just don't see the moral contradiction that you've been asserting for the last few pages.

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