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  1. #1
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Default Obama: You do the math

    Obama's acceptance speech was beautiful. He's right about a lot of things that are wrong with the Bush doctrine.

    But there was one part that had me screaming at my TV in disbelief:

    I will eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and the start-ups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow.

    I will cut taxes - cut taxes - for 95% of all working families. Because in an economy like this, the last thing we should do is raise taxes on the middle-class.
    How, may I ask, does he propose to cut taxes while introducing universal health care? I live in Canada now, but will be contacting the Embassy for my absentee voter ballot. Universal health care is the main reason that Canadians pay more taxes than Americans.

    Even if we stopped funneling billions of dollars into Iraq right this instant, we still cannot afford to pay for Universal Health Care without raising taxes.

    And this says nothing about the fact that our national debt is horrifying. We either need to take the steps to resolve it, or just hand our country over to China. No steps can be taken to reduce it if we reduce taxes and build universal health care. On the contrary, it can only go up.

    So, tell me, is he running for President of the United States, or Mayor of Crazytown? I can't see anything more from him right now than flawed logic and false promises.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I like his idea of eliminating capital gains taxes for small businesses. I find it amusing and frustrating that he doesn't take the same approach for all businesses. It's as though once a company reaches a certain size, it instantly becomes evil and must be taxed into oblivion (ie. windfall profits tax on oil companies). He doesn't seem to realize that oil companies ALSO provide high paying jobs for Americans, and that raising taxes on them will cause oil companies to trim their workforce. That's inconsistency for you.

    As for lowering taxes for 95% of Americans, great! I'd like to see taxes reduced for 100% of Americans. Rich people don't bury money in mattresses. They reinvest, which creates jobs. They consume, which creates jobs. When politicians engage in class warfare, it really annoys me because it shows how little they understand economics. It's nothing but pandering.

    As for how we'll pay for universal health care, you're right. We can't pay for it without increasing tax revenue. Whether raising or lowering tax rates will accomplish that goal is debatable. We'll probably just print more money.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    We'll probably just print more money.
    *weeps* Sadly enough, you're probably right.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  4. #4
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    With an aging population it is entirely impossible to lower taxes like he said and introduce universal health care. I know because I live in Germany, and we have a system slightly more capitalistic than he wants to implement and we have about 40-60% income taxes, depending on your income and tax group. Trust me folks, what he wants to have is impossible.

    Sort of like the bit about getting rid of nuclear weapons.

    Oh yeah, and saying that he wants to pull out of Iraq but then saying to us Germans in Berlin that he might need to call on us to help with the war against terror which might mean needing more troops. Hahahaha.

    But, okay, let's not be cynical. Let's assume that this guy is not just letting a big fart go. Let's assume this guy isn't just spewing rhetoric. Let's assume this guy is not a pie-in-the-sky dreamer. Assuming all that, which may or may not be the case:

    How in the name of god's green earth do you expect a Republican controlled congress to approve of drastic measures like that????

    Okay, tax breaks, maybe! But pulling out of Iraq completely???? Lowering the numbers of nuclear weapons???? Introducing universal health care????

    Unless this guy becomes the next dictator of America, there is no way in HELL this guy is going to be able to put these drastic measures through Congress. No way in hell. So assuming he isn't bought off by interest groups, shot by some crazy fart, or manipulated by organizations and foreign interests - this STILL AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN FOLKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And IF the Congress gets a Democratic majority, which won't happen this year or next, there will be so much porkbarreling and filibustering that he might as well give it up before he starts.

    Such are the wonderful, beautiful characteristics of democracy. Okay, perhaps the most humane system, one could argue (or not - heh where a country doesn't even guarantee basic human rights like health care and tax breaks to have a decent salary - but blows the shit out of other countries because they don't) it SURELY is NOT the most EFFICIENT form of government. :rolli:
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  5. #5
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    With an aging population it is entirely impossible to lower taxes like he said and introduce universal health care. I know because I live in Germany, and we have a system slightly more capitalistic than he wants to implement and we have about 40-60% income taxes, depending on your income and tax group. Trust me folks, what he wants to have is impossible
    It's very possible if taxes are raised on the top 5%. They own 95% of the wealth anyways.

    And with the money people save on not having to pay for health care, they spend.

  6. #6
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    It's very possible if taxes are raised on the top 5%. They own 95% of the wealth anyways.

    And with the money people save on not having to pay for health care, they spend.
    Yeah, that's clear. I'm not saying his ideas are BAD - they are GOOD. But we live in a real world with real-life actors, influences and systems and I'm telling you - you can be a fantastical dreamer in every other area of life - hell, I AM a dreamer in every other area of life - BUT NOT IN POLITICS!!!!! You have to be realistic, ice-cold, and rational. You cannot AFFORD to be anything else - and I don't just mean money. If you cannot take ideology and feelings out of it and make rational, intelligent decisions that are realistic, then you have no business in the White House or any other position of power.

    Sorry, folks, but that's the truth. *shrugs* And this guy sounds to me like he should be a professor/teacher or director of a NGO non-profit org. NOT the president of one of the most influential countries of the world. *cringes*

    On the other hand, the other fart ain't much better. *sigh* What a choice. A crazy ass, antagonistic fart who is stuck back in the cold war era and refuses to move on as he imposes his strange world view on the rest of the us, or an idealistic, pie-in-the-sky, irrational jackass who thinks he can just change everything by waving a magic wand and saying, TA-DA!

    Sorry, I'll calm down now....<takes a deep breath>
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  7. #7
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    I don't like unpredictability in politicians either. Aside from increasing tax revenue and social spending, and trying to increase gun control, I have no idea what Obama will do in office, and that scares me.

  8. #8
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Yeah, that's clear. I'm not saying his ideas are BAD - they are GOOD. But we live in a real world with real-life actors, influences and systems and I'm telling you - you can be a fantastical dreamer in every other area of life - hell, I AM a dreamer in every other area of life - BUT NOT IN POLITICS!!!!! You have to be realistic, ice-cold, and rational. You cannot AFFORD to be anything else - and I don't just mean money. If you cannot take ideology and feelings out of it and make rational, intelligent decisions that are realistic, then you have no business in the White House or any other position of power.

    Sorry, folks, but that's the truth. *shrugs* And this guy sounds to me like he should be a professor/teacher or director of a NGO non-profit org. NOT the president of one of the most influential countries of the world. *cringes*

    On the other hand, the other fart ain't much better. *sigh* What a choice. A crazy ass, antagonistic fart who is stuck back in the cold war era and refuses to move on as he imposes his strange world view on the rest of the us, or an idealistic, pie-in-the-sky, irrational jackass who thinks he can just change everything by waving a magic wand and saying, TA-DA!

    Sorry, I'll calm down now....<takes a deep breath>
    It basically comes down to what policies you support. Grandpa Alzheimer's votes with Bush 90% of the time, so if you think the Bush presidency is/was great, support McCain.

  9. #9
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I don't like unpredictability in politicians either. Aside from increasing tax revenue and social spending, and trying to increase gun control, I have no idea what Obama will do in office, and that scares me.
    Well, you can look at his voting record. He'll simply work to enact liberal Democrat policies.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    It's very possible if taxes are raised on the top 5%. They own 95% of the wealth anyways.

    And with the money people save on not having to pay for health care, they spend.
    And with that, investment would decrease, further slowing the economy, which would raise unemployment. More people would become dependent on the government. But that's what Obama wants.

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