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  1. #81
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    If you have 2 equally bad system, you're suggesting that the fair one is not preferable?
    Who says they're equally bad?

  2. #82
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Why do you resort to condescending personal attacks instead of debating his/her point? If s/he respond in kind, then the discussion will just degenerate into an insult secession.
    Because I had already debated those points. It's a waste of time to repeat myself. My assessment was that ajblaise doesn't understand economics. That's why he's caught in his illogical loop.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Who says they're equally bad?
    Enyo appears to be asserting that fairness is unimportant.

  4. #84
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    It is typical of lateralus to attribute all disagreance with him to a lack of education.

    Anyway, I like a system where health costs are proportionate. They're based on how much the patient can afford. That way, even the down-trodden get covered, but the system doesn't run out of money, since so much can be reaped from the wealthiest citizens.

    However, I'm probably going to be told that it is somehow unfair to take excess money from the rich and use it to save dying people.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #85
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Obama's acceptance speech was beautiful. He's right about a lot of things that are wrong with the Bush doctrine.

    But there was one part that had me screaming at my TV in disbelief:



    How, may I ask, does he propose to cut taxes while introducing universal health care? I live in Canada now, but will be contacting the Embassy for my absentee voter ballot. Universal health care is the main reason that Canadians pay more taxes than Americans.

    Even if we stopped funneling billions of dollars into Iraq right this instant, we still cannot afford to pay for Universal Health Care without raising taxes.

    And this says nothing about the fact that our national debt is horrifying. We either need to take the steps to resolve it, or just hand our country over to China. No steps can be taken to reduce it if we reduce taxes and build universal health care. On the contrary, it can only go up.

    So, tell me, is he running for President of the United States, or Mayor of Crazytown? I can't see anything more from him right now than flawed logic and false promises.
    I read his book, "Audacity of Hope." My opinion was that he's an eloquent speaker with good intentions. However, I don't think he's right for president. He seems more qualified to be a motivational speaker. He has the charisma, but I don't think he has the skills to be president. There's a chance he might choose a good cabinet if he gets elected, of course, but he doesn't really seem to understand the issues himself.

    It's possible, though, that he's just telling people what they want to hear, and has a completely different agenda than he advertises. He may well understand more than he seems to. I have no idea.

  6. #86
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It is typical of lateralus to attribute all disagreance with him to a lack of education.
    All disagreements? That's a pretty broad claim. If you had said 'disagreements with socialists', your statement might have some validity, but you didn't.

    Anyway, I like a system where health costs are proportionate. They're based on how much the patient can afford. That way, even the down-trodden get covered, but the system doesn't run out of money, since so much can be reaped from the wealthiest citizens.

    However, I'm probably going to be told that it is somehow unfair to take excess money from the rich and use it to save dying people.
    No, what would happen is that the rich would just go outside the system. Result: Bankruptcy, another failed intellectual social experiment.

  7. #87
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    I read his book, "Audacity of Hope." My opinion was that he's an eloquent speaker with good intentions. However, I don't think he's right for president. He seems more qualified to be a motivational speaker. He has the charisma, but I don't think he has the skills to be president. There's a chance he might choose a good cabinet if he gets elected, of course, but he doesn't really seem to understand the issues himself.

    It's possible, though, that he's just telling people what they want to hear, and has a completely different agenda than he advertises. He may well understand more than he seems to. I have no idea.
    RIGHT! Very good post - this is exactly what I meant. Kudos for you.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  8. #88
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    All disagreements? That's a pretty broad claim. If you had said 'disagreements with socialists', your statement might have some validity, but you didn't.


    No, what would happen is that the rich would just go outside the system. Result: Bankruptcy, another failed intellectual social experiment.
    What you have to understand (you: general) is that it would not fail immediately. For a while - perhaps even 40 years if the economy is good and America gets strong again - it would work. Then everyone sits on their laurels, abuses the system, etc. Do you really think the rich will ever pay a proportionate amount of taxes? Hell no. They would just get more write-offs so that they don't have to pay.

    So who - in effect - pays for the system? Not the poor - they cannot afford it. Not the rich - they don't want to afford it, and they have sleazy accountants who can circumvent the laws in legal ways. The solution? About 35-40% of the population (the middle class, who is struggling in America as it is) pays for the health care of 95% of the nation for mediocre service, while the rich bastards get private health care, which is better anyway.

    I'm not saying the American system is better. There are some serious issues that need to be revamped. No question. In a land where so much money is made, no one should have to die when he/she could have lived if they had the money. But I'm not so sure that universal health care is the way to go.

    On a more positive note, I wonder if there isn't some kind of middle ground - something that would ensure quality and competition while allowing everyone to get some form of health care while avoiding bureaucratic nonsense. It'd be something to ponder.

    What do you think????
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  9. #89
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    No, what would happen is that the rich would just go outside the system. Result: Bankruptcy, another failed intellectual social experiment.
    Go outside the system to what?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #90
    Sniffles
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    Wow some interesting points were made in this thread. Especially by Little Linguist, keep the good work up.

    Unfortunately, Im not entirely able to contribute much at this time. Im worn out from the various discussions I had about church-state relations and whatnot.

    I will throw in my two cents and state that yes the welfare state is an inefficient system and in the end cannot be sustained. Obama's policies for "change" are largely just further developments of the kind of system America has lived under since FDR's New Deal.

    If Obama really was interested in change, he'd propose starting the process in dismantling the system before it collaspes under it's own weight. Unfortunately the only candidate to propose such a thing(Ron Paul) was snuffed out by the media and the political elites.

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