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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Government is the only option when universal health care is concerned. If they can get someone to the moon, they can provide health care. Canada and Europe does it, why can't we?
    Yeah, let's slow down medical innovation and reduce the quality of care. There is a downside to everything, man.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    You're really reachin now. Government would be more efficient at universal health care than the market, because the market won't do it. They are the only option.
    Before I even bother responding to this, I want to know your definition of efficiency, because I don't think we're on the same page here at all.

  3. #43
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Government is the only option when universal health care is concerned. If they can get someone to the moon, they can provide health care. Canada and Europe does it, why can't we?
    Now, I'm trying to maintain my patience and composure here. If you agree with the systems in Europe, then maybe you should take a closer look at the serious direct and indirect CRISES going on as a result. If you don't take my word for it, ask any knowledgeable Europeans on this forum. You think I'm a biased, selfish ass? Ask them. They will tell you. Seriously. And I can tell you when you look at your paycheck and it is HALF of what you got before, you will sing a different song when it comes to universal health care, especially when you have to wait 3 hours to see a doctor and you still have to pay a copay on things. And you see people with PRIVATE health care (i.e.: rich asses) who get in first, and some doctors ONLY take private health care patients because the government IS so inefficient. YEAH. SO, it is not the cure-all. It's a good first step, sure. But America won't take it. I'm sure of it.
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  4. #44
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Yeah, let's slow down medical innovation and reduce the quality of care. There is a downside to everything, man.
    The healthiest countries in the world have universal health care. There are downsides, but they don't outweigh the upsides, e.g. a healthy populous.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Well, the congress and senate will remain dominated by Democrats, some people say even more so.

    And I'm not really hearing anything from Obama that's too crazy or nutty.
    Everything that he says *sounds* beautiful. The man is a brilliant orator. When he speaks, it sounds as if anything really and truly is possible.

    Until you stop and look at what it is that he'd like to pull off. When you begin to look at the numbers that it would take to make his visions a reality, you realize that it is not possible to do these things at a government level without excessive taxation and increasing our national debt.

    The solution is less government, not more. The free market can correct most of the issues that we have. The mortgage crisis and the housing slump? Unfortunately, that *is* the correction due to the rapid overinflation that the real estate market has experienced in the years past.

    I'd like to say that the solution is to buy American, but there's not even enough American manufacturing left to make that possible. Maybe the solution is to focus on a local level, rather than on a national level. Support the small mom-and-pop retailers instead of the big box and discount chains. Take the education system out of the hands of the federal government and restore it to the state and local levels. If you have an option, buy locally grown produce at the farmer's market instead of going to the national grocery store.

    Become community activists. Work for the changes that we want to see to happen at a community level, whether that's getting involved with politics or local charities or both. Return to a charitable support system and get away from the welfare state. If we can't completely get away from the welfare system that we've built, then go back to it being what it was meant to be: a hand-up, not a hand-out.

    What he wants to see in the country in terms of opportunities is beautiful. But making it a government mandate for it to happen is a thing of terror.

    I think I'm voting Libertarian this year, even though Bob Barr isn't my first choice, either.

    Damn McCain for picking Palin for a running mate. I was all but praying for Romney. At least he understands the economy.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  6. #46
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    *sigh* I agree that HMOs are not the right solution. I agree that it is crap that some people fall through the cracks and are not insured. I agree that some reforms need to be made. BUT there must be a more efficient, more effective way of doing it than just calling on the dear ol' American government to step in and take charge when it has proven time and again that it is inefficient when it comes to basic, VITAL needs.
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  7. #47
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    But people come to America to get the best possible treatment. (There are a few other countries like Israel iirc which do a great job as well)

    And I'm pretty sure American R&D had quite a hand in the techniques used all over the world.

  8. #48
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Before I even bother responding to this, I want to know your definition of efficiency, because I don't think we're on the same page here at all.
    There is no more efficient way to provide universal health care because there are no other viable ways of providing it. Define efficiency however you want. This is simple logic.

  9. #49
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Everything that he says *sounds* beautiful. The man is a brilliant orator. When he speaks, it sounds as if anything really and truly is possible.

    Until you stop and look at what it is that he'd like to pull off. When you begin to look at the numbers that it would take to make his visions a reality, you realize that it is not possible to do these things at a government level without excessive taxation and increasing our national debt.

    The solution is less government, not more. The free market can correct most of the issues that we have. The mortgage crisis and the housing slump? Unfortunately, that *is* the correction due to the rapid overinflation that the real estate market has experienced in the years past.

    I'd like to say that the solution is to buy American, but there's not even enough American manufacturing left to make that possible. Maybe the solution is to focus on a local level, rather than on a national level. Support the small mom-and-pop retailers instead of the big box and discount chains. Take the education system out of the hands of the federal government and restore it to the state and local levels. If you have an option, buy locally grown produce at the farmer's market instead of going to the national grocery store.

    Become community activists. Work for the changes that we want to see to happen at a community level, whether that's getting involved with politics or local charities or both. Return to a charitable support system and get away from the welfare state. If we can't completely get away from the welfare system that we've built, then go back to it being what it was meant to be: a hand-up, not a hand-out.

    What he wants to see in the country in terms of opportunities is beautiful. But making it a government mandate for it to happen is a thing of terror.

    I think I'm voting Libertarian this year, even though Bob Barr isn't my first choice, either.

    Damn McCain for picking Palin for a running mate. I was all but praying for Romney. At least he understands the economy.
    AMEN!!!!! Listen to him ^^ This is what I am saying. The man has great ideas - don't get me wrong. But they are IDEAS and IDEALS - NOT practical solutions. Perhaps in 50 years' time, when America is ready and humbled not to go trapsing all over the world in search of glory as world policeman, you guys can settle down and re-evaluate your priorities.

    But as it currently stands, it would never work. Think about this through!!!! The American government can't even manage the SS sytem at the moment!!! They are talking about demographic crises here - people losing their SS money - and now they want to start universal health care??? Am I dreaming????
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    The healthiest countries in the world have universal health care. There are downsides, but they don't outweigh the upsides, e.g. a healthy populous.
    I've lived in a countries that have both.

    I had a better doctor in the States than I have in Canada. I could get in to actually *see* my doctor in the States.

    But because I currently live in Canada, I was actually able to afford to get biopsies done on skin lesions (aka "moles"). And the one on my face was done by a plastic surgeon.

    People have to wait so long for specialists here in Canada that they sometimes die while waiting to get in for that chemotherapy. It doesn't matter how much money you have; you'll still die waiting. It's to the point that Canadians who can afford it will go to other countries for medical treatment so that they can get it *then*.

    Yeah, great system.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

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