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  1. #151
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Heh, 99% of what I know about economics was learned on my own time.
    That's usually how it is. Autodidacts of the world unite!

    It gives the people the impression that government is "doing something", and that makes people feel better, even if it's ultimately to their own detriment.
    That's basically the whole basis behind so many laws and regulations passed lately. Government of course usually wants more power, so of course it'll exploit any incident or tragedy to show it's "doing something" rather than simply stating "You know people, there's only so much government can do."

    That's a problematic mentality we have today; that it's government's job to fix all our problems. It's usually better if the primary problem solvers are local communities and private sector actors. Government's main goal should be to help supplement those efforts, but not be the actual primary actor.

  2. #152
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's basically the whole basis behind so many laws and regulations passed lately. Government of course usually wants more power, so of course it'll exploit any incident or tragedy to show it's "doing something" rather than simply stating "You know people, there's only so much government can do."

    That's a problematic mentality we have today; that it's government's job to fix all our problems. It's usually better if the primary problem solvers are local communities and private sector actors. Government's main goal should be to help supplement those efforts, but not be the actual primary actor.
    Our lives are so easy compared to our ancestors that we have lots of extra time, which some people use to contemplate how to make life 'perfect'. What's ironic is that one of the primary vehicles that gave us this great lifestyle (capitalism) is demonized.

  3. #153
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's basically the whole basis behind so many laws and regulations passed lately. Government of course usually wants more power, so of course it'll exploit any incident or tragedy to show it's "doing something" rather than simply stating "You know people, there's only so much government can do."
    That's that basically the whole basis behind any sense of authority. It's a product of human nature, and it doesn't really matter if you call someone a politician, or priest, or a businessman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's a problematic mentality we have today; that it's government's job to fix all our problems. It's usually better if the primary problem solvers are local communities and private sector actors. Government's main goal should be to help supplement those efforts, but not be the actual primary actor.
    I think the problem is that there's too much seperation between oneself and the government. Instead of people always regarding the government like some kind of seperate entity, they should try to be the government. Take reign of it.

    When people in this world say they don't need a government, they're wrong. They need it. Government is only a problem when it becomes detached. The ideal system would be one where a large and strong government still exists, but it is in the hands of more people than it is today.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #154
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm out of the state for four months, in Missouri (Misery). But I'll be back!

    I don't know how to respond to your previous post. It don't understand what you're getting at.

    P.S. I've been to Mankato a couple times. It's way out there...
    No matter about my previous post, L.

    Yes, Mankato is "way out there" in many ways.

    I'm reading with interest. . .
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  5. #155
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Our lives are so easy compared to our ancestors that we have lots of extra time, which some people use to contemplate how to make life 'perfect'. What's ironic is that one of the primary vehicles that gave us this great lifestyle (capitalism) is demonized.
    Well, Feudalism also lead us here. Just because it was a step along the path doesn't mean we can't do better, or that we'd like to go back to it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #156
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, Feudalism also lead us here. Just because it was a step along the path doesn't mean we can't do better, or that we'd like to go back to it.
    Capitalism is part of what led us out of feudalism. Why do you think it would lead us back?

  7. #157
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Our lives are so easy compared to our ancestors that we have lots of extra time, which some people use to contemplate how to make life 'perfect'.
    That's a good point. In fact just last night I watched a discussion on Catholic TV about how ease of life has a detrimental effect on how one addresses the important questions of personal existence. We forget the importance of struggle and hardship in building an authenic understanding of life.

    That's very dangerous on several levels. Because usually people in those circumstances resort to very cheap forms of escape(drugs, sex, TV) or contemplate wild fantasies that have little to do with reality.

    We provide so many distractions from life and from dealing with fundamental issues. Of course as they discussed, such issues don't go away, rather they'll manifest themselves in more pathological manners.

    If there's a plus to all this, such a void creates the inevitable hunger for truth and meaning, and a potential rejection of all shallow substitutes.

    I'll end it here, since I'm sure has nothing to do with what you said.

  8. #158
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, Feudalism also lead us here. Just because it was a step along the path doesn't mean we can't do better, or that we'd like to go back to it.
    Y'know, I really believe that capitalism will solve most of the issues that we are displeased with, but only if the government will back off long enough for the free market to correct the issues.

    There's actually a school of thought out there that believes FDR and the New Deal actually made the Great Depression last longer than it would have if they'd stayed out of it.

    Smaller government, not bigger, I believe, is the solution to our problems.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  9. #159
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Capitalism is part of what led us out of feudalism. Why do you think it would lead us back?
    You looked at this wrong...

    I didn't say capitalism will take us back to feudalism(though it can depending on what style you are talking about), what I was saying is that while feudalism did lead us out of more primitive times, it doesn't mean that it is a system we want to go back to now.

    Likewise, just because capitalism supposedly gave us this supposedly great life, doesn't mean that we should forever swear ourselves to capitalism, anymore than we should have sworn ourselves to feudalism.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #160
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    T
    I think the problem is that there's too much seperation between oneself and the government. Instead of people always regarding the government like some kind of seperate entity, they should try to be the government. Take reign of it.

    When people in this world say they don't need a government, they're wrong. They need it. Government is only a problem when it becomes detached. The ideal system would be one where a large and strong government still exists, but it is in the hands of more people than it is today.
    This is absolutely true, and this issue is discussed in my "World without politics" thread. We don't need to transcend politics, but rather we need to bring politics back to the peoples' actual control. Now Obama saids this alot, but his plan wouldn't achieve that.

    If you give more control back to the states and local communities, then people would have more geniune power. In some areas we are seeing a trend towards this. Not just in America, but elsewhere as well, like Europe. It's enough to give me hope.

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