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  1. #141
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Here is an estimate on how much money letting the feds negotiate prices could save, just with senior medical care. What if the Federal Government Negotiated Pharmaceutical Prices for Seniors? An Estimate of National Savings.

    Here is an article on financial incentives physicians get for filling out prescriptions (you have to sign up for the site though): Financial Incentives for Physicians in Managed Care - Journal Watch Psychiatry

    If you agree with the ideals, why not slowly work towards them instead of going with the status-quo?
    The status quo isn't a free market system. 40% of all the money we spend on health care in the U.S. is government money. It's a very silly, bureaucratic, piecemeal system. It's a big clusterfuck of employer benefits, health care conglomerates, federal and state governments, and personal insurance plans.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  2. #142
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    The status quo isn't a free market system. 40% of all the money we spend on health care in the U.S. is government money. It's a very silly, bureaucratic, piecemeal system. It's a big clusterfuck of employer benefits, health care conglomerates, federal and state governments, and personal insurance plans.
    I never said it wasn't, we spend a lot on health care.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I never said it wasn't, we spend a lot on health care.
    The implication was that a universal coverage system would be an improvement, and I don't know that that's true.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #144
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Here is an estimate on how much money letting the feds negotiate prices could save, just with senior medical care. What if the Federal Government Negotiated Pharmaceutical Prices for Seniors? An Estimate of National Savings.
    Honestly, I don't believe that estimate, at all. Government financial estimates are always way too optimistic. It's about telling people what they want to hear, not the truth.

    Here is an article on financial incentives physicians get for filling out prescriptions (you have to sign up for the site though): Financial Incentives for Physicians in Managed Care - Journal Watch Psychiatry
    I'll read this some other time. I don't philosophically have a problem with restricting physicians from receiving incentives from drug companies. It's a conflict of interest. But this doesn't have anything to do with universal health care.

    If you agree with the ideals, why not slowly work towards them instead of going with the status-quo?
    When did I say I want the status quo? I'd prefer to the status quo to a universal health care system, which I believe will eventually either destroy our health care system or bankrupt the country (and maybe both). But I'd prefer to go in a different direction.

    The first thing I would do is eliminate all medical insurance/plans/etc (including medicaid/medicare), except for catastrophic insurance. This would be the single most effective action we could take to reduce costs. When consumers pay directly out of their pocket, they're much more sensitive to price changes. Clinics/hospitals/pharmacies/etc would be forced, by the market, to do something they haven't had to do in decades. They'd have to cater to public demand.

    We would see medical costs drop rapidly. Of course, this will never happen. Most people don't understand economics and they're afraid.

  5. #145
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Well, I think Little Linguist is onto something when she notes that old people are becoming a load on our system. . . We're definitely keeping people alive too long.

    Winkin' at you LL.

    (Actually that's a whole 'nother discussion, having watched a parent have to die while they were trying to keep him alive, which I'd like to talk about sometime. Ugly process.)

    And as far as people not understanding economics, Lateralus, not everything you are taught in school plays out the way it's "supposed to" in the long run. Unfortunately.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  6. #146
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    And as far as people not understanding economics, Lateralus, not everything you are taught in school plays out the way it's "supposed to" in the long run. Unfortunately.
    Heh, 99% of what I know about economics was learned on my own time. But you're right about things not playing out how they're "supposed to", and that's because the Keynesian school (which I think is very flawed) is so popular. It gives the people the impression that government is "doing something", and that makes people feel better, even if it's ultimately to their own detriment.

  7. #147
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    To me the point is less "why" and more what is actually reality.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  8. #148
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Peekin' around the corner at you Lateralus and wondering where you are going to take the conversation next.

    I was looking at the MN meetups and thought perhaps you were a fellow Minnesotan stuck in Misery, USA. I commiserate.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  9. #149
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Heh, 99% of what I know about economics was learned on my own time. But you're right about things not playing out how they're "supposed to", and that's because the Keynesian school (which I think is very flawed) is so popular. It gives the people the impression that government is "doing something", and that makes people feel better, even if it's ultimately to their own detriment.
    That's a tremendous avatar.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #150
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    Peekin' around the corner at you Lateralus and wondering where you are going to take the conversation next.

    I was looking at the MN meetups and thought perhaps you were a fellow Minnesotan stuck in Misery, USA. I commiserate.
    I'm out of the state for four months, in Missouri (Misery). But I'll be back!

    I don't know how to respond to your previous post. It don't understand what you're getting at.

    P.S. I've been to Mankato a couple times. It's way out there...

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