User Tag List

First 31112131415 Last

Results 121 to 130 of 198

  1. #121
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The US can do what the rest of the world has done, which is to provide universal health care at enormous cost. Your argument was that universal health care reduces costs, but you haven't proven that point. You keep comparing costs in other nations to the US, and that's flawed methodology. You need to compare costs within those nations, both before and after universal health care.
    If you want to dismiss the fact that other nations do it for less, you have to explain how they are able to do it for -in many cases- only half as much as we are, on un-universal health care. What makes them so special?

    Economically, of course offering it to everyone should cost most. We are obviously wasting a lot of money as it is, so unless American's are naturally unhealthy, we could conceivably do it for less than we are now.

    If it would end up costing more, I would have no problem with that.

  2. #122
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    Which stats are you using? WHO? Their stats rate by the availability to everyone, not the quality or wait. A talented statistician can make those stats say whatever was needed to further an agenda.

    I can't speak to what happens in Europe, because I don't live there. But I can speak to what I personally see happening in Canada. There are brutal waits.

    A family friend had to wait a year for a doctor to biopsy her thyroid when she had a tumor. This mass was so large that it was visible in her neck, constricted her breathing and bent her windpipe, and took away her voice. She had to go to the emergency room many times because her tumor was strangling her and she couldn't breathe.

    This is a reality, not an anecdote.

    Tell me, though, if the US is such a rich country, why do we have a national debt in the trillions? Canada doesn't have a national debt. Canada has a surplus.

    If you really want to have a national health care system that *works*, then pay off the debt and cut government spending, first. But I'd really rather see it get more capitalist and less nanny state, thanks.
    NationMaster - Spending > Per person (most recent) by country

    The US is a rich country, we make the most, we just like to spend it.

    Maybe if Canada didn't have a conservative PM your country would hire most doctors and create more facilities? Use some of that oil money.

  3. #123
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    If you want to dismiss the fact that other nations do it for less, you have to explain how they are able to do it for -in many cases- only half as much as we are, on un-universal health care. What makes them so special?
    This is just flawed reasoning. Law, standard of living, and economic infrastructure are not equal between nations. Those differences will produce different starting points when entering a universal health care system. Just because a nation provides health care at a cheaper cost per citizen than the US does not mean that universal health care reduces costs. That nation may have had a lower cost than the US when moving to a universal health care system.

    The US system, as it stands, sucks. But that does not mean that a universal health care system will lower costs.

    Economically, of course offering it to everyone should cost most. We are obviously wasting a lot of money as it is, so unless American's are naturally unhealthy, we could conceivably do it for less than we are now.

    If it would end up costing more, I would have no problem with that.
    Explain why you think it would cost more.

  4. #124
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    This is just flawed reasoning. Law, standard of living, and economic infrastructure are not equal between nations. Those differences will produce different starting points when entering a universal health care system. Just because a nation provides health care at a cheaper cost per citizen than the US does not mean that universal health care reduces costs. That nation may have had a lower cost than the US when moving to a universal health care system.

    The US system, as it stands, sucks. But that does not mean that a universal health care system will lower costs.


    Explain why you think it would cost more.
    For the US to offer universal health care at the same or lower cost, we would obviously have to re-work the health care system as it is. We shouldn't just simply add universal coverage to what we have now.

  5. #125
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    For the US to offer universal health care at the same or lower cost, we would obviously have to re-work the health care system as it is. We shouldn't just simply add universal coverage to what we have now.
    And how would you 're-work' the system?

  6. #126
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    xNTJ
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    NationMaster - Spending > Per person (most recent) by country

    The US is a rich country, we make the most, we just like to spend it.

    Maybe if Canada didn't have a conservative PM your country would hire most doctors and create more facilities? Use some of that oil money.
    What is the basis of these statistics? Where do they get their figures? How do they determine these stats? There's no explanation. However, they are derived from the World Bank. What's their agenda in these statistics?

    I have to tell you that I honestly have a very hard time believing that Canada spends less than 2 grand per annum on each person.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  7. #127
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    And how would you 're-work' the system?
    I'd put more focus on disease prevention, look at over-prescription in the US (more people are being prescribed meds, at younger ages, for more conditions), let law makers negotiate costs in the same way insurance companies do....things like this. The stuff pharm companies don't want us to do.

  8. #128
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    7,917

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
    What is the basis of these statistics? Where do they get their figures? How do they determine these stats? There's no explanation. However, they are derived from the World Bank. What's their agenda in these statistics?

    I have to tell you that I honestly have a very hard time believing that Canada spends less than 2 grand per annum on each person.
    Hey baby I don't write it I just cite it.

    And it's the World Bank we are talking about. They get criticized for favoring US business interests over dealing with poverty. They aren't some left wing organization out to make the US look bad.

  9. #129
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    xNTJ
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I'd put more focus on disease prevention, look at over-prescription in the US (more people are being prescribed meds, at younger ages, for more conditions), let law makers negotiate costs in the same way insurance companies do....things like this. The stuff pharm companies don't want us to do.
    And this is when I point out that universal health care doesn't cover prescription medication in Canada. That's what extended health care coverage is for, if you can get it through your employer. (Hmm. This sounds familiar.)

    Keep the government out of my medicine cabinet, thank you very much. I'd also prefer it if the government didn't determine how often I should have a pap smear.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  10. #130
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    xNTJ
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Hey baby I don't write it I just cite it.

    And it's the World Bank we are talking about. They get criticized for favoring US business interests over dealing with poverty. They aren't some left wing organization out to make the US look bad.
    Precisely. And the US looks awfully good and nice and superior because we spend oh so much money on health care.

    These aren't government expenses, though.

    Perhaps you should attempt to have more faith in your sources before you cite them. Never rely on a source that you yourself don't necessarily trust.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

Similar Threads

  1. Which Philosopher Do You Dislike the Most?
    By logan235711 in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 113
    Last Post: 08-02-2017, 11:14 PM
  2. Received my books, CTC/SP ;) do the math heh.
    By INFtha14 in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 07-04-2009, 07:41 AM
  3. Doing the math to undesrstand the science...
    By ygolo in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-04-2008, 12:37 PM
  4. [SJ] What do SJ's look for in a partner? Crush? You get the drift --
    By CzeCze in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-30-2007, 04:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO