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View Poll Results: Which do you support?

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  • "In God We Trust" on our currency

    3 6.98%
  • "One Nation Under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance

    0 0%
  • Both

    7 16.28%
  • Neither

    33 76.74%
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Results 21 to 30 of 151

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You can't really have a true "secular democracy" in a majority-religious nation that has a Free Exercise clause in its Constitution.
    Yep Which is why I need to move to Sweden!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's an oxymoron. Besides even "secular" democracy relies heavily upon what is commonly referred to as "civil religion".

    And if you eliminate God and religion, then by default the state is the determinator of ultimate truth - which leads to shit like "Enlightened absolutism" of the 18th century or 20th century totalitarianism.

    So dance around it as much as you like it, religious-like sentiments and beliefs underplay in any legal system.
    When you let religion make the rules you get shit like the Spanish Inquisition, witch trials, suppression of learning and knowledge, oppression of women and many other things that hold back society.

  3. #23
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You can't really have a true "secular democracy" in a majority-religious nation that has a Free Exercise clause in its Constitution.
    sassafrassquatch mistakes secularity with secularism. Ironically secularity(ie the seperation of church and state) is religious in origins, stemming from Christ's teachings of render unto Caesar what's Caesar's and rending unto God what's God's.

    Which means one should obey earthly authority but recognize it's not the ultimate authority.

    This notion was further formulated during the Medieval period, in order to keep the state from interferring with the affairs of the Church. Yet today, we have that backwards - somehow the state needs to be protected against the evil church.

  4. #24
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    Can't we just agree that government sucks?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    You can't really have a true "secular democracy" in a majority-religious nation that has a Free Exercise clause in its Constitution.
    By secular I mean people believe whatever they want but keep it out of the government as the governments job is to govern not fool around with prayers and platitudes.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Can't we just agree that government sucks?
    I've been trying to forge that consensus since I was about 13 years old. Whenever someone complains that not enough people vote, I always counter with "It's a wonder more people don't stay home! Most people I talk to don't care for the government much; I don't see why they don't vote Libertarian or some other third party or just stay home and write angry letters." They still go out and vote, though. I voted drunk in 2004, and I may do it again this year.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    By secular I mean people believe whatever they want but keep it out of the government as the governments job is to govern not fool around with prayers and platitudes.
    Keep it out of the government HOW, though? That is the crucial questions. You can't keep politicians from voting their consciences, nor can you keep them from displaying their beliefs publicly. Those behaviors are absolutely protected by the 1st Amendment. I think it would be more effective to take as much power away from the government as we can, and leave it to do things that have nothing to do with personal morality.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    Can't we just agree that government sucks?
    Humans suck. Freakin' monkeys...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I voted drunk in 2004, and I may do it again this year.
    I know you did. I would have voted for Harry Brown(e) in 2000 if I voted. I voted for Bush in 2004 because *loud and proud* I hate all democrats. I would have voted for Paul this time, but he's out. Any vote for another Libertarian this time is one less for McCain. That's just the way of the world. *shrug*

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    When you let religion make the rules you get shit like the Spanish Inquisition
    What the first insitution in history to gurantee a defendent the right to a lawyer? Among other things.

    witch trials
    I already dealt with this in my debate with Kiddo. Numerous times the Church condemned witch trials and whatnot.

    suppression of learning and knowledge
    Actually monks contributed greatly to the preservation of knowledge during the Dark Ages, which later blossomed into the Renaisance of the 13 century - culminated in the philosophical works of St. Thomas Aquinas.

    Should I also mentioned that it was monks who invented the mechanical clock, so as to be better schedule prayer sessions on a regular basis? Or even better yet, that the calender we use by devised upon the orders of Pope Gregory XIII so as to better calculate when certain holy days occured. Hence why it's still referred to as the Gregorian calendar.

    oppression of women
    Actually did much to raise the status of women in society.

    and many other things that hold back society.
    Religion was actually done much to advance society. The rejection of religion has brought us the bloodiest wars and tyrannies the world has ever seen.

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