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View Poll Results: Which do you support?

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  • "In God We Trust" on our currency

    3 6.98%
  • "One Nation Under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance

    0 0%
  • Both

    7 16.28%
  • Neither

    33 76.74%
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Results 131 to 140 of 151

  1. #131
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And my argument is that's impossible to achieve. Even if you bann "sacral" religion from government, government still has to rely upon "civil" religion to maintain connections between the people and the government. As history shows, the more God is banned from government, the more the government starts to assume the role of God.
    I'm not saying that the government would be perfect even without religious motives. The government would be incompitent no matter what, as it's a bunch of people telling other people how they should live their lives. No matter what, it's a flawed system. But governments assume the role of God regardless of whether or not they base their system on God's beliefs. I just happen to think that government should be more about what a country needs than about what an debateable entity might want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    They have religious freedom under the 1st Ammendment. And yes they should be treated with considerable respect. But why should the beliefs and customs of 90+% of the people be denied such to make sure the 10% isn't "offended" or whatnot? That's not democracy.
    I'm not saying that people are "offended", it's just uninclusive. And it's not the customs of the population to have "In God we trust" on money. It wouldn't affect a religious person's lifestyle if their ten dollar bill just had a number 10 written on it. Besides, Christian sayings aren't even inclusive to all Christians. Each Christian worships in their own way, and it's not for the government to decide that part of that worship should be declared on their currency. If I were Christian, I'd be a little pissed that the government felt it necessary to tie in my religious beleifs with capitalism, which is one interpretation that I've heard complaints over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Well they're in a majority Christian country, so they should respect the traditions of the majority. I fail to see how this would offend other religions though, since the "God" that's referenced isn't even specified.

    Just like I have to respect the religious traditions of the people in Islamic majority countries. Even as a Catholic, I have to respect the fact that America is largely a Protestant nation.

    So once you stop to realise the world doesn't revolve around you, it's not that hard a concept to accept.
    Heh, it's not about me. I see religion in government as a flawed system, and as such I refuse to accept it. I say the same about governments that have nothing to do with religion. I see that your opinion here will be different, but I believe that acceptance of a flawed system, no matter how diplomatic it might be to do so, is what leads to crappy political situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That would be illegal.
    First, I apologize that I forgot the word "if" in that sentence. Second, yes, that would be illegal as it is now. It's never going to happen, because that's an example. But you see the difference: putting "Goddess" instead of "God" is accepting to the entire Pagan denomination, which actually includes a lot of religions, but while the Pagans might be happy, the Christians wouldn't be. And even if the word "God" can be taken as all-inclusive, I'm fairly certain that most people recognize it's connection with Christianity, and therefore probably don't consider it as a part of their spirituality. But that's speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Tradition isn't about being against change, but rather maintaining continuity through change. Pope John Paul II once remarked that true fidelity to tradition is creative, not imitative.
    In theory, yes, but in practice it never seems to go that way. But again, I'll state that I know next to nothing about American tradition. It's obviously important to some people, and obviously unimportant to others, but I think that if tradition weren't incorporated into some decisions, good change would happen faster. I don't mind tradition itself, just when it hinders a needed change.
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

  2. #132
    Senior Thread Terminator Aerithria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'll go easy on you since you're Canadian. The first amendment doesn't say anything about a separation of church and state. That doctrine is not actually part of the law. It's a philosophy proposed by Thomas Jefferson based on his interpretation of the first amendment (which didn't become popular until well after the Civil war).

    When the US was formed, many of the states had their own state religions. Massachusetts was Puritan, Pennsylvania was Quaker, and so on. The purpose for the first amendment was to keep the federal government from forcing Massachusetts to become Quaker if the Quakers were able to seize federal power, and vica versa. The individual states also had lots of religious laws on the books, and they were constitutional (otherwise those states wouldn't have ratified the constitution).

    So when you consider the purpose of the founding fathers, keep this in mind.
    Oh, really? Huh. That actually makes a lot more sense than what I'd gathered by outside reading. Okay, well whatever arguments I made using the first amendment, I revoke due to an apparent misunderstanding. I'll have to reread some of those old laws before getting myself into another debate that I'm less-than-familiar with. Thanks for pointing that out.
    [insert funny quote/saying/etc.]

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    *gasps with horror*

    is it sacrelige whenever a dollar bill is stuffed in a hooker's g-string?!?!?
    I believe that would be called worshipping Evolution, though it's a bit sketchy regardless. Strippers, though, do need the money.

  4. #134
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    is it sacrelige whenever a dollar bill is stuffed in a hooker's g-string?!?!?
    Jesus Christ! I didn't even think about that! Can I change my vote?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    I believe that would be called worshipping Evolution, though it's a bit sketchy regardless. Strippers, though, do need the money.
    *ponders sending this phrase to the Kansas State Legislature to see if it's possible for someone's head to explode in a state of confusion...*


    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    *ponders sending this phrase to the Kansas State Legislature to see if it's possible for someone's head to explode in a state of confusion...*


    How did you know I live in Kansas? My knowledge of strippers?

  7. #137
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flak View Post
    How did you know I live in Kansas? My knowledge of strippers?
    It's because I'm the REAL Miss Cleo... not the dude who got in legal trouble over that hotline
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #138
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    Peguy reminds me of the judge at the end of Braveheart where William Wallace is on trial. Wallace says, "Never did I swear allegiance to Long Shanks." The judge says, "It matters not, he is your king." Apparently it doesn't matter if you're not a christian, christianity is your king.

  9. #139
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    Apparently it doesn't matter if you're not a christian, christianity is your king.
    Until you leave a predominately Christian country for a Muslim one. Then the Ayatollah will show you who's king.

  10. #140
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    The world is so good now, for so many more people than it ever has been, that....Just be happy, for Christ's sake.

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