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  1. #11
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    These attack ads and trivial narratives are only there to sway idiot undecided voters, who respond better to these sorts of things rather than taking a look at where they stand policy wise.
    Policy is really not a good criteria for an independent voter to choose a President. If policy were most important, then they would pick a party and wouldn't be independent.

    Also policy is more important in voting for legislators who deal solely with the creation of laws. The executive branch has impact on policy as well, but they also are responsible for other things which have little to do with party affiliaion such as diplomacy, warfare, or responding to an emergency. I don't agree with how Bush has handled situations like Iraq or Katrina, but I don't think it has to do with him being Republican. I think he is simply incompetent regardless of party affiliation.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Policy is really not a good criteria for an independent voter to choose a President.
    What on earth is better criteria for choosing a president than his plan of action?

    I don't usually agree with ajblaise on politics but this seems like common sense.
    I don't wanna!

  3. #13
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    These attack ads and trivial narratives are only there to sway idiot undecided voters, who respond better to these sorts of things rather than taking a look at where they stand policy wise.
    I think this is the first time that I've ever agreed with you.

    Seriously, I find the nastiness of attack ads to be a turn-off. I don't use commercials to make my decisions about politics. I'd kinda rather look at the positions. And then try to pick the one that's the least contrary to my beliefs. :P

    Too bad that I don't want either of our current candidates equally.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  4. #14
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Policy is really not a good criteria for an independent voter to choose a President. If policy were most important, then they would pick a party and wouldn't be independent.

    Also policy is more important in voting for legislators who deal solely with the creation of laws. The executive branch has impact on policy as well, but they also are responsible for other things which have little to do with party affiliaion such as diplomacy, warfare, or responding to an emergency. I don't agree with how Bush has handled situations like Iraq or Katrina, but I don't think it has to do with him being Republican. I think he is simply incompetent regardless of party affiliation.
    What else would you use? Seriously, I don't care about party affiliation, myself. But the parties are (in theory) representative of certain core beliefs.

    You are right, though, Bush is incompetent, period. Party aside. The same thing could have been said about Carter, from what I understand. (I wasn't around at the time, so I don't have first-hand knowledge.)
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Policy is really not a good criteria for an independent voter to choose a President. If policy were most important, then they would pick a party and wouldn't be independent.

    Also policy is more important in voting for legislators who deal solely with the creation of laws. The executive branch has impact on policy as well, but they also are responsible for other things which have little to do with party affiliaion such as diplomacy, warfare, or responding to an emergency. I don't agree with how Bush has handled situations like Iraq or Katrina, but I don't think it has to do with him being Republican. I think he is simply incompetent regardless of party affiliation.
    This raises some interesting questions here. It seems you're arguing for an Executive that acts very much in a monarchial-type role. The monarch stands above petty inter-party disputes concerning policies, and guides the nation through a grand vision of how it should conduct itself in the world. Because of the a-political nature of the monarch's office, everybody can rally around his leadership.

    One English writer actually spoke with much praise about the American presidency being a perfect example of a monarchy in the modern world.

  6. #16
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    What on earth is better criteria for choosing a president than his plan of action?

    I don't usually agree with ajblaise on politics but this seems like common sense.
    If you look at history you will see that most presidents are defined by how they responded to the events around them rather than what their preelection plan was. For example the first event that comes to most people's mind about Jefferson's presidency is the Lousiana Purchase, which was mostly taking advantage of an opportunity (one that was inconsistent with his general anti-Federalist philosophy). Madison's presidency was dominated by the war of 1812.

    I mention these two since there is no doubt they understood law and policy like no one else (being the most influencial contributers to the constitution). However those things are not as important as how they responded to what what going on in the world around them. In fact most presidents are remembered for how they responded to events rather than if they ennacted their preelection plan. Polk is not honored like Lincoln, even though Polk was excellent at enacting his preelection plan.

    Being the Chief Executive has more responsibility associated with it than simply setting policy. Furthermore there are many legislators that will be involved in any lawmaking process, while the ability to respond to crisis mostly relies on the competence of the Executive Branch and its president.

    Also I want to point out that I am mostly talking about independent voters. Partisan voters have already decided that issues are more important to them, and that is why they vote with their party. Independent voters either share views from both parties or don't care much about issues. That is why they are independent. Furthermore they have good reason to look beyond policy when choosing a president, since the president's job involves more than simply setting policy. However for legislators I largely agree that issues should be the deciding factor on who to vote for.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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