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  1. #61
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anja View Post
    A mood-altering chemical is a mood-altering chemical is a mood altering chemical.

    The problem, as I view it, is not the drug. The problem is the poverty of the human spirit.
    And how would you use this information to improve the situation?

  2. #62
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    Good question. It's sort of like asking how do you improve the situation with teen pregnancy.

    Certainly there can be a genetic component which could be considered both in inclination, nature, and in handed-down practices, nurture.

    As with other seemingly insoluable problems, the most practical approach is the fence at the top of the cliff - education. And the ambulance at the bottom - treatment.

    I have doubts that any amount of government regulation will have much influence on man's tendency to mood-alter. (I think there's more than a bit of ironic truth in Lenin's statement that religion is the opiate of the masses.)

    Here's a thought for consideration which came to mind while reading: Merck, a major producer of legal mood-altering medication, produces them in such generous amounts that there is little chance that they are all being used legally. And a family which owns considerable stock in the Merck company happens to be a prominent political family with ties to the CIA.

    Sounds like conspiracy stuff, for sure, and one of you Thinkers out there is going to ask me for documentation which I don't have at present. S'pose I could go off on a research toot but the hour is late.

    I'll throw it out for consideration. Perhaps someone out there has some facts at hand.

    Without a doubt alcohol is a much more destructive substance than most of the illegal substances in many aspects and it is definitely not soley a personal problem, but rather, as all excessive drug use, a social, legal and spiritual one.

    Next I return I'll have more to say. On education and treatment I can speak well, but don't count on much more than my opinion as I'm some lazy about such.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I personally think that the quote-unquote "War on Drugs" has become an excuse to militarize our civilian police forces and generally curtail individual freedoms across the board. The quote-unquote "War on Terror" has piled on in the same capacity.
    Over time we have granted our presidents more and more power since our first one. When George Washington was initially elected in 1789, the Commander-in-Chief had almost no power, really. Over the course of the years, however, we have looked to our presidents in times of need and given up certain rights in sake of security or simple survivability. Our three American values are liberty, equality and democracy. Sometimes in order to preserve one we have to take away from another. Some examples of the president being given more power to lead us through a situation are the civil war, the stock market crash of 1929, the soon-to-follow great depression, Pearl Harbor & WWII and most recently and as you have seen with The Patriot Act, the attacks on September 11th.

    These things were supposed to be temporary powers in almost every situation but as you can see, they usually stick around. I don't expect The Patriot Act to really ever be abolished as it was speculated to have been after this war is over.
    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    ... if you don't know who Neil Peart is, then you're probably going to hell.

  4. #64
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    I say legalize them because there are still a few more that I want to try.

  5. #65
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    The soft ones should be legal, definitely, anything that you can't really OD on should be legal and standardized so that you know what you are getting.

    The hard ones, however, are more difficult because of the psychological ramifications.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    I say legalize them because there are still a few more that I want to try.
    'choo need, main?

  7. #67
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    ajblaise, you're making a lot of assumptions, but you're short on facts.

    99 Percent Say No
    I bet if you asked heroin addicts a few years before they became addicted if they planned on using heroin, most would say no too. Also, if hard drugs became legalized and marketing by big business, people's perceptions of these drugs would change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    [url=http://www.drugwarfacts.org/addictiv.htm]Drug War Facts: Addictive Qualities of Popular Drugs[/url
    I'm not sure what your point is with this. How addictive =/= how harmful. It's only one factor in judging how harmful a drug is.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    Does alcohol regulation really do anything to keep people from drinking and becoming alcoholics? Alcohol is nothing compared to hard drugs, and it still ruins lots of lives.
    Nope, but alcohol being decriminalized sure does. People who are of age that drink socially drink socially without fear of legal repercussions. People who are interested in the whole social taboo of doing something forbidden? Meh, alcohol is legal, so it's not so attractive.

    The exception to this being university students binge drinking, and that's largely because drinking for roughly 75% of them is still illegal. But if the drinking age were lowered, I'd bet that puking your brains out from a hangover on Saturday morning would be less attractive to them, too.

    But for the decriminalization thing, start small. Legalize and regulate pot, first. Go for the grand social experiment.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  9. #69
    Senior Member Enyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didums View Post
    The soft ones should be legal, definitely, anything that you can't really OD on should be legal and standardized so that you know what you are getting.

    The hard ones, however, are more difficult because of the psychological ramifications.
    I'd like to point out that it's possible to OD on anything, including water.
    "If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning." Catherine Aird

  10. #70
    Senior Member nottaprettygal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I bet if you asked heroin addicts a few years before they became addicted if they planned on using heroin, most would say no too. Also, if hard drugs became legalized and marketing by big business, people's perceptions of these drugs would change.
    Most likely, if all drugs became legal, there would certainly be a ban on advertising and probably on public use as well.

    Your argument about heroin addicts seems like an extreme to me. The legality or illegality of drugs doesn't matter when people are searching for a way to escape reality. I do agree that there would be more addicts if drugs were legalized, but I also think that if we were living in culture that promoted treatment over punishment then addicts would at least have a chance to get clean.

    Most of them probably wouldn't . . . which is why I support decriminalization and not legalization (although for pot, I say legalize it).

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