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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    With drugs like heroin, just think about how much more people will try it and become addicted compared to keeping heroin in the back alleys. Prices would drop, availability would skyrocket, there would be 13 year old middle school junkie cliques instead of little pothead groups.

    Just image what billion dollar marketing firms would do to promote these kinds of drugs. If you think dealers are good at selling heroin just image what real marketing campaigns could do.

    But with drugs like alcohol, prohibition is useless.
    You think the harm caused by the increase in heroin use would be equal to or greater than the harm caused by the drug black market? The street gangs, smugglers, cartels, Colombia's whole clusterfuck?

    It's illegal to advertise cigarettes so I seriously doubt heroin adverting would be legal.

  2. #52
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    You think the harm caused by the increase in heroin use would be equal to or greater than the harm caused by the drug black market? The street gangs, smugglers, cartels, Colombia's whole clusterfuck?
    Yeah. Gangs and smugglers and all that will always be around, they will just find new products and money making crimes.

    Plus with all the soft drugs legalized, less people will seek out the harder drugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    It's illegal to advertise cigarettes so I seriously doubt heroin adverting would be legal.
    It's not, on TV it is, not sure what else. Companies will always find ways to market their products, we know that.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    That's why I don't want to try it, but if it's right in front of my face, I am more likely to give in. Maybe I had a bad night and I go to the store and buy it, (where as if it remained illegal I wouldn't have because it would be harder, it wouldn't be on a whim) and get addicted.

    That's really silly. I am not advocating getting rid of needing prescriptions here, but there is no reason why pot or cocaine or heroin shouldn't be available from a doctor. Chemical dependence doesn't have to be crippling to a person's life. It may prevent a person from achieving his or her potential, but so does poverty, low IQ, bad luck, etc. Besides, you are overestimating the addictive potential of these chemicals. At some point, you have to make a conscious decision to live a junkie's lifestyle. I've done them all, and I still manage to get through my days without them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    With drugs like heroin, just think about how much more people will try it and become addicted compared to keeping heroin in the back alleys. Prices would drop, availability would skyrocket, there would be 13 year old middle school junkie cliques instead of little pothead groups.

    Just imagine what billion dollar marketing firms would do to promote these kinds of drugs. If you think dealers are good at selling heroin just image what real marketing campaigns could do.

    But with drugs like alcohol, prohibition is useless.
    This is silly, too. You honestly think people don't know what cocaine and heroin do, and what the side effects are? These drugs were legal less than 100 years ago! And, I must reiterate, each of these drugs is legal by prescription in one form or another. Cocaine is used in dental and ophthalmological surgery as a local anesthetic, heroin = morphine, Oxycontin, Dilaudid, et al, and methamphetamine = Desoxyn. Wouldn't it help people FAR more to get them off street drugs and treated with safer pharmaceutical versions?

    Quote Originally Posted by sassafrassquatch View Post
    You think the harm caused by the increase in heroin use would be equal to or greater than the harm caused by the drug black market? The street gangs, smugglers, cartels, Colombia's whole clusterfuck?

    It's illegal to advertise cigarettes so I seriously doubt heroin adverting would be legal.
    I actually don't think it's ILLEGAL to advertise cigarettes on TV (remember the NASCAR Winston Cup?). I believe there was a gentlemen's agreement between the federal government, TV networks, and tobacco companies to stop TV ads in the 1970s.
    Last edited by nottaprettygal; 08-29-2008 at 08:21 AM. Reason: Merged posts
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I have similar moral beliefs about rights, but I'm just trying to think practically, instead of attaching my abstract moral philosophies onto everything despite what outcome it would produce.
    Morals? No. I'm not familiar with morals.

    Ethics? Absolutely.

    And I'm thinking with logic as well. All of my arguments before this one have been based in logic, such as comparing the drug war to Prohibition or desiring the government to monopolize on the drug trade in order to turn more profit and regulate drug policy. I resorted to my final argument (which is very F based, mind you. total libertarian, lol) last because I don't like my argument to be simply based in ideals. If I can support my ideals with logic first, then I prefer to do so. And I feel I've done that.

    Bottom line is that the drug war isn't working now. So an alternative approach is required. Your only argument has been against heroin, whereas for me, its simply an example.

    Sure, heroin is dangerous, but just like Jack Flack said, its dangers would vary even more without government regulation.

    Either way, it doesn't matter to me whether or not heroin is legal or not. I wouldn't be caught dead using it. But it doesn't bother me if it was legal.

    A heroin epidemic? Please. I highly doubt that it would happen, and if it did, it wouldn't be anything like the Opium Wars in China.

    Out of curiosity, in the case of a heroin epidemic, what do you think would be the results? What would that mean for the rest of us? I'm really just picturing a higher number of heroin users that don't really endanger anyone but themselves for the most part. And as far as that is concerned, I don't care. If you're picturing something different, let me know and I'd be glad to offer a solution in the case that one would arise, though I highly doubt it would be of apocalyptical proportions.

    Another idea, a regulation of hard drug users (and to a lesser extent softer drug users) would be depending on the amount an individual uses, etc.; that would determine how much government paid healthcare one would receive.

    This idea didn't come from me. It came from motorcyclists who wish to ride motorcycles without a helmet. This is the solution they came up with. In order to ride without a helmet, they wish to forfeit government paid healthcare.

    A similar regulation could also be implemented for hard drug users. Just an idea.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    With drugs like heroin, just think about how much more people will try it and become addicted compared to keeping heroin in the back alleys. Prices would drop, availability would skyrocket, there would be 13 year old middle school junkie cliques instead of little pothead groups.
    Maybe. Maybe not. In any case, I don't really care. If they choose to ruin their lives, then I say go for it. They'll get busted for violating the age regulation, and that will be the end of it. Juvie rehab centers will still profit, sure enough.

    Using hard drugs still have consequences, long and short term and employers (such as government work) won't hire you if you've done drugs that will have long term consequences that will inhibit your job performance.

    I would say in the case of children, drug education would be a must, the same with sex education.

    Of course there will be an age regulation, but just like alcohol, there would be those that find access to hard drugs.

    As far as I'm concerned, its just a way to weed out the dumbasses who don't have enough respect for their bodies, the law, or their education.

    Tough love, I say.

  6. #56
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    I would also like to point out that marijuana is illegal, while alcohol is legal but age-restricted. Which drug do you think is being used more often by the under-18 crowd? It's definitely marijuana. The illegal nature of it doesn't decrease the availability for the people who are too young to buy alcohol.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #57
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    I personally think that the quote-unquote "War on Drugs" has become an excuse to militarize our civilian police forces and generally curtail individual freedoms across the board. The quote-unquote "War on Terror" has piled on in the same capacity.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    ajblaise, you're making a lot of assumptions, but you're short on facts.

    99 Percent Say No

    Drug War Facts: Addictive Qualities of Popular Drugs

    I like the guy in this interview, Norm Stamper.

    reason.tv - Videos > Former Seattle Police Chief Norm Stamper on the High Costs of the Drug War

  9. #59
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I personally think that the quote-unquote "War on Drugs" has become an excuse to militarize our civilian police forces and generally curtail individual freedoms across the board. The quote-unquote "War on Terror" has piled on in the same capacity.
    Factbook : Corruption of Law Enforcement Officers

    I'd quote parts of this link, but it's all good information and too long to paste into this thread.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Anja's Avatar
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    A mood-altering chemical is a mood-altering chemical is a mood altering chemical.

    The problem, as I view it, is not the drug. The problem is the poverty of the human spirit.
    "No ray of sunshine is ever lost, but the green which it awakes into existence needs time to sprout, and it is not always granted to the sower to see the harvest. All work that is worth anything is done in faith." - Albert Schweitzer

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