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  1. #11
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    That being said, there's also supposedly a disproportionate number of right-wingers among economists. So, which one do we believe?
    I don't know about that.

    American economists strongly support the Democratic Party, with their views on policy being largely in accordance with the Democratic platform. The vast majority, 63%, identify as progressive and less than 20% as conservative or libertarian.[17] In a 2004 survey of 1,000 American economists, registered Democrats outnumbered registered Republicans by a 2.5 to 1 ratio. The majority of economists favored "safety regulations, gun control, redistribution, public schooling, and anti-discrimination laws," while opposing "tighter immigration controls, government ownership of enterprise and tariffs."[18] Other surveys have found Democrats to outnumber Republicans 2.8 to 1 among members of the profession. A study in the Southern Economic Journal found that "71 percent of American economists believe the distribution of income in the United States should be more equal, and 81 percent feel that the redistribution of income is a legitimate role for government."[19]
    The latest study is based on surveys conducted in 2003 of members of various disciplinary associations. On the question of political affiliation, the survey found the following breakdown of Democrats to Republicans:

    * Anthropologists and sociologists 21.1:1
    * Political and legal philosophers 9.1:1
    * Historians 8.5:1
    * Political scientists 5.6:1
    * Economists 2.9:1

  2. #12
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    I was going to add that the median mainstream American economist is most likely a Keynsian-influenced Democrat these days. Economists just seem more right-wing than they are because they will probably be more pro-free trade than the average Democrat/center-leftist, but they are usually supporters of a moderate welfare state. Also, libertarianism isn't really a right-wing movement, so that is also a factor.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #13
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I don't know about that.
    Well, I stand corrected,

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Also, libertarianism isn't really a right-wing movement, so that is also a factor.
    Well, right-wing has never had an actual definition, it's meaning only exists in terms of contemporary trends. I'm afraid that it's becoming more and more common to call libertarianism right-wing, and I think this is because it is largely associated with Republicans, and because it is so clearly counter to most of the left-wing ideology.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, right-wing has never had an actual definition, it's meaning only exists in terms of contemporary trends. I'm afraid that it's becoming more and more common to call libertarianism right-wing, and I think this is because it is largely associated with Republicans, and because it is so clearly counter to most of the left-wing ideology.
    Well, true, "right-wing" is a relative term. However, libertarianism is descended from the British liberal tradition of the 18th-Century. In fact, in many places in the world, what I believe would be called "liberal." I don't understand libertarianism being considered a Republican phenomenon, either. If you look at their platform, it's a litany of anti-liberty policy. Perhaps fifty years ago, when you still had people like Robert Taft and Howard Buffett as prominent libertarian anti-New Deal Republicans, but there are almost none of these Old Right types left in the party, and cultural libertarianism has become a major part of the philosophy since the 1960s, especially protesting Vietnam and the War on Drugs. There were even tactical alliances between libertarians and the New Left at the time, although circa-2008 American liberalism is pretty much antithetical to libertarianism.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #15
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Well, true, "right-wing" is a relative term. However, libertarianism is descended from the British liberal tradition of the 18th-Century. In fact, in many places in the world, what I believe would be called "liberal."
    I know. In some countries, they use the word "liberal" to refer to what we call conservatives. It's craaAAAAaaazy! But you know, it's because human beings are chronically prone to distorting language.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I don't understand libertarianism being considered a Republican phenomenon, either. If you look at their platform, it's a litany of anti-liberty policy. Perhaps fifty years ago, when you still had people like Robert Taft and Howard Buffett as prominent libertarian anti-New Deal Republicans, but there are almost none of these Old Right types left in the party,
    Amaricans can't remember fifty years back. What they do notice is that now, people who call themselve libertarian are way more likely to registrer with or vote for the Republican party than the Democratic party.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    and cultural libertarianism has become a major part of the philosophy since the 1960s, especially protesting Vietnam and the War on Drugs. There were even tactical alliances between libertarians and the New Left at the time, although circa-2008 American liberalism is pretty much antithetical to libertarianism.
    There's an interesting gap between culture and politics in this country. More than there rationally should be. So it's hard to gauge the political environment based on cultural movements.

    Never the less, even in the sixties, it was people like Goldwater, a Republican, that were more known for libertarianism.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #16
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I know. In some countries, they use the word "liberal" to refer to what we call conservatives. It's craaAAAAaaazy! But you know, it's because human beings are chronically prone to distorting language.
    I'd actually like "liberal" back for us. It makes the most sense of any of the words. Plus, the right has done a great job of making it a pejorative for the center-left, so they don't even like to use it anymore (hence, the rise of "progressive").



    Amaricans can't remember fifty years back. What they do notice is that now, people who call themselve libertarian are way more likely to registrer with or vote for the Republican party than the Democratic party.
    Perhaps in the Reagan/Bush I era, but I don't think that is as true anymore. Outside of the Ron Paul fans, most libertarians don't seem to get involved in major party politics. They go with the LP or vote the lesser of two evils by individual races. There is some ideological affinity between libertarians and small-government Republicans, but there really aren't that many small-government Republicans around anymore. I think your assertion is another misconception, as I had been saying before. There are a bunch of moderate libertarians prepared to vote Obama in swing states right now, because of massive McCain hatred/war protest.



    There's an interesting gap between culture and politics in this country. More than there rationally should be. So it's hard to gauge the political environment based on cultural movements.

    Never the less, even in the sixties, it was people like Goldwater, a Republican, that were more known for libertarianism.
    Goldwater was pretty libertarian, his hawkishness notwithstanding, but I think you are a little unaware of how tiny and out-of-step the libertarian movement was post-WWII. It could be measured in the tens of thousands in America. The American consensus was a big-government, big-military managerial state, and the oppositional right was the Buckleyite, National Review "God and Country" crew. The libertarians at that time were completely beleaguered, until dislike of LBJ and Vietnam caused rifts that brought about the New Left, and the remaining anti-war Old Right types started to coalesce with the libertarians. Then, Nixon freezing wages and prices and taking us off the gold standard completely precipitated the start of the Libertarian Party in 1971. It was clear at point that the Republicans had no intention of rolling back the welfare state, and we were in Vietnam for about five years after Nixon was elected. The Reagan Administration had some libertarians involved and he did some good things, but they were so hawkish and the budget deficit ballooned and the Christian Right got into things. It was a squandered opportunity.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    I don't know about that.
    It depends what type of economics we're talking about. I don't see how a classical economist could reconcile their principles with the idea that wealth should or can be "redistributed" by the government.
    Heterodox economics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Behavioral economics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia behavioral economists are probably more likely to be Democrats than conservatives.
    I don't wanna!

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    but there really aren't that many small-government Republicans around anymore.
    How are you defining small here? Compared to what libertarians want? Many of whom, according to you, want to vote for Obama? I'm not following this logic.
    I don't wanna!

  9. #19
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    It depends what type of economics we're talking about. I don't see how a classical economist could reconcile their principles with the idea that wealth should or can be "redistributed" by the government.
    Heterodox economics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Behavioral economics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia behavioral economists are probably more likely to be Democrats than conservatives.
    That's true, of course to find a classical economist we'd have to go back to the 18th and 19th centuries.

    If you look at the polls, there are some Republican and conservative and libertarian economists, just not that many of them.

  10. #20
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    How are you defining small here? Compared to what libertarians want? Many of whom, according to you, want to vote for Obama? I'm not following this logic.
    "Small-government" meaning "significant tax cuts, significant spending cuts (including the military), less interventionism abroad." How many Washington Republicans ACTUALLY want to make the government significantly smaller? Ron Paul, Jeff Flake, and who else?

    And I didn't mean to say "many libertarians support Obama," just that some would vote tactically for him (or for Barr in a swing state) because of McCain dislike. Outside of being better on free trade and the possibility of slightly more gridlock with a Republican POTUS while Congress is Democratic, he has very little appeal to libertarians. He sucks on the First Amendment, he's a warmonger, and he knows almost nothing about economics. That's like the exact opposite of what libertarians like.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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