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  1. #1
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Default Legality of Infanticide

    Go nuts.

    @Hard and @Nicodemus you can even discuss it (I missed Hard's explanation) between yourselves without me even intervening... for a while anyway.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    You were the one who wanted to know more. Ask.

  3. #3
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Did that thread discussion go from abortion to infanticide?

    I am guessing it was it an anti-abortionist who pulled out infanticide to it.
    .
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  4. #4
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    You were the one who wanted to know more. Ask.
    Well the general rationale for what comprises personhood would be a start.

    Quote Originally Posted by riva View Post
    Did that thread discussion go from abortion to infanticide?

    I am guessing it was it an anti-abortionist who pulled out infanticide to it.
    Yes and No, Nico brought it up and Hard followed suit.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  5. #5
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Not a great start to the thread, guys -- just letting you know.
    Still open, though.

    (OP might get more responses if he presents an actual view and/or asks questions, rather than just baiting two members he thinks he disagrees with.)

    EDIT: Beorn, thanks.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #6
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Just wrote something in the Abortion thread, but for infanticide, I shall say this.

    We put very sick puppies and kittens down, as an act of kindness, even though in families, they are members of that family, they are that family's baby. We establish a threshold where we decide we cannot ease their suffering AND let them live. For humans, we generally let them eke out their suffering until they expire.

    I know this reads more like an euthanasia argument (I support euthanasia) but when an infant is suffering so much, and doctors cannot prevent a slow death, or prevent a decline in their quality of life, why should the inevitable be delayed if the parents wish it, and they have the consent of doctors? If there is no groundbreaking experimental treatment to try out?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Well the general rationale for what comprises personhood would be a start.
    The aspect relevant to this discussion would be the right to life. As for the rationale behind it, I refer you to my posts in this thread.

  8. #8
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    Just wrote something in the Abortion thread, but for infanticide, I shall say this.

    We put very sick puppies and kittens down, as an act of kindness, even though in families, they are members of that family, they are that family's baby. We establish a threshold where we decide we cannot ease their suffering AND let them live. For humans, we generally let them eke out their suffering until they expire.

    I know this reads more like an euthanasia argument (I support euthanasia) but when an infant is suffering so much, and doctors cannot prevent a slow death, or prevent a decline in their quality of life, why should the inevitable be delayed if the parents wish it, and they have the consent of doctors? If there is no groundbreaking experimental treatment to try out?
    Looking just at this very specific band of cases: Huge gray area for me, and my inclination is to let parents/family with the consultation of doctors decide what to do in a situation where a baby is terminal. I don't personally know if I could make that decision, as a parent, but I'd rather have the decision stay with me and my family than have other people make it for us.

    But here's a story: I have a friend who has a trisomy 18 baby. She was advised to end the pregnancy since trisomy babies often die in the first year despite care (90%?), and many times the baby miscarriages before birth anyway because it can't survive. But my friend didn't end the pregnancy. She and her husband are still raising their daughter. The girl is a few years old now and is beating the odds at least in terms of survival. I have a strong mix of pride/admiration and heartbreak for them, because of how hard the road they have chosen can be -- it demands a lot of time and energy and the poor girl is always sick, going into the hospital, etc. There is a lot of suffering. Yet I'm sure my friend, while so much it can be stressful and painful to deal with (it always hurts to watch your child suffer), does not view it as an overall burden because she loves her daughter and feels that the time they have together is vital and precious; there is a lot of joy in their decision as well, and they've been bearing up under their choice.

    Other people might make the decision to end a pregnancy or potentially euthanize someone (if legal, I guess) with an intent to spare the child pain and hardship. I'm not sure how to evaluate that decision. I can think of reasons for it to be a bad one (e.g., the parent is more concerned about THEIR hardship), but I can see different people with good intentions making different choices.

    There are questions to be asked, like:
    - Is pain the priority when it comes to deciding to live or die?
    - Is functioning "normally" the priority?
    - Is life the highest priority regardless of the cost?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
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    I could definately see where someone would connect the legailty of abortion to infanticide. I personally think that life starts at conception, and unless there are extreme circumstances, no one has the right to end anyone elses life.

    I do not think that it is acceptable to abort, because to me it is pretty much murder only murder that you are commiting sooner rather than later. There are always alternative options, unless of course the baby isnt viable or will endanger the mothers life, but in absence of these circumstances I just do not agree with abortion.

    It isnt acceptable to kill a 2 year old, so why is it acceptable to kill a 2 month old fetus? You are not only making that choice for yourself, you are also making a choice for your child.

  10. #10
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Not a great start to the thread, guys -- just letting you know.
    Still open, though.

    (OP might get more responses if he presents an actual view and/or asks questions, rather than just baiting two members he thinks he disagrees with.)

    EDIT: Beorn, thanks.
    Wow, and you said I was reading negative things into posts that weren't there.

    How is this baiting?
    It's just a general topic in which at least @Hard had expressed an interest to elaborate on his view without prompting and @Nicodemus had expressed a willingness to answer questions.

    Is it going to be considered baiting every time someone starts a topic where they know people disagree with them?

    You want me to state a position? Fine.
    Infanticide: I'm against it.

    Jennifer maybe you should chill and let someone else deal with me or nobody can deal with me since there's really nothing to be dealt with.
    Last edited by Beorn; 04-15-2015 at 02:49 PM. Reason: took a while to get the wording of that last line right
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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