User Tag List

First 123 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 24

  1. #11
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    954
    Posts
    1,742

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Looking just at this very specific band of cases: Huge gray area for me, and my inclination is to let parents/family with the consultation of doctors decide what to do in a situation where a baby is terminal. I don't personally know if I could make that decision, as a parent, but I'd rather have the decision stay with me and my family than have other people make it for us.

    But here's a story: I have a friend who has a trisomy 18 baby. She was advised to end the pregnancy since trisomy babies often die in the first year despite care (90%?), and many times the baby miscarriages before birth anyway because it can't survive. But my friend didn't end the pregnancy. She and her husband are still raising their daughter. The girl is a few years old now and is beating the odds at least in terms of survival. I have a strong mix of pride/admiration and heartbreak for them, because of how hard the road they have chosen can be -- it demands a lot of time and energy and the poor girl is always sick, going into the hospital, etc. There is a lot of suffering. Yet I'm sure my friend, while so much it can be stressful and painful to deal with (it always hurts to watch your child suffer), does not view it as an overall burden because she loves her daughter and feels that the time they have together is vital and precious; there is a lot of joy in their decision as well, and they've been bearing up under their choice.

    Other people might make the decision to end a pregnancy or potentially euthanize someone (if legal, I guess) with an intent to spare the child pain and hardship. I'm not sure how to evaluate that decision. I can think of reasons for it to be a bad one (e.g., the parent is more concerned about THEIR hardship), but I can see different people with good intentions making different choices.

    There are questions to be asked, like:
    - Is pain the priority when it comes to deciding to live or die?
    - Is functioning "normally" the priority?
    - Is life the highest priority regardless of the cost?
    It is instances like this to show how difficult these decisions would be. There's no benefit of hindsight, nobody knows for definite how something will play out, so it'd would come down to what the heart and mind say together, and/or down to a balance of probabilities for that child's future. In any sane person's mind, it comes down to "are we doing the right thing?" and it isn't easy to decide either way, and not have any regret over it. Every case is different and putting certain metrics in place may not be the right option, every suffering child is unique. For me though, suffering pain is only one aspect affecting quality of life - say a child is left brain dead, that being no prognosis of recovery, they will never experience life like we do, they will never feel love, they only exist - I could calmly say now that if it happened to my daughter I would not want her hooked up to a ventilator ad infinitum, I would not prolong what she is going through, even if I cannot tell what is left of her is going through hell or not, but I also know that it would be heartbreaking for me to go through that experience if it were to happen for real. But we all have a time to go, and we all want our own deaths to be swift and painless (do we?). This is only one example, I'm not sure what I would want to do with every other type of affliction though, and I don't think there can be a definite rulebook for any of them.

  2. #12
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    954
    Posts
    1,742

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Wow, and you said I was reading negative things into posts that weren't there.

    How is this baiting?
    It's just a general topic in which at least @Hard had expressed an interest to elaborate on his view without prompting and @Nicodemus had expressed a willingness to answer questions.

    Is it going to be considered baiting every time someone starts a topic where they know people disagree with them?

    You want me to state a position? Fine.
    Infanticide: I'm against it.

    Jennifer maybe you should chill and let someone else deal with me or nobody can deal with me since there's really nothing to be dealt with.
    TBH I'm interested in their views too on infanticide. Let's just wait.

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty6226 View Post
    I could definately see where someone would connect the legailty of abortion to infanticide. I personally think that life starts at conception, and unless there are extreme circumstances, no one has the right to end anyone elses life.

    I do not think that it is acceptable to abort, because to me it is pretty much murder only murder that you are commiting sooner rather than later. There are always alternative options, unless of course the baby isnt viable or will endanger the mothers life, but in absence of these circumstances I just do not agree with abortion.

    It isnt acceptable to kill a 2 year old, so why is it acceptable to kill a 2 month old fetus? You are not only making that choice for yourself, you are also making a choice for your child.
    What if a mother overexerts herself, or she is eating poorly, so without her realizing it, a blastocyst does not survive implantation in the uterus because her body decides she cannot support a pregnancy? Is this woman guilty of involuntary manslaughter? After all, if it's a human life at conception, her baby just died through her own negligence.

    This is more of a topic for the abortion thread, though. I think this thread is mainly concerned with infanticide -- what people think about killing an infant after it's been born.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft
    Likes Passacaglia liked this post

  4. #14
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    MBTI
    CROW
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/so
    Socionics
    LII None
    Posts
    9,035

    Default

    You know, I think this thread is going incredibly well so far. I'm pleased. That's not sarcasm; that's a genuine statement.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
    http://kevan.org/johari?name=Birddude78

  5. #15
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 sp/so
    Socionics
    EIE Fe
    Posts
    7,977

    Default

    Based off a reaction I got in the previous thread, I no longer have any interest or will to discuss this, as such I will not be participating.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  6. #16
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    8w9
    Posts
    9,710

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    This is more of a topic for the abortion thread, though. I think this thread is mainly concerned with infanticide -- what people think about killing an infant after it's been born.
    That's how I took it (since that's what infanticide means) but obviously other people are making their own definition. Not surprising or anything.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
    Likes ReadingRainbows, BluRoses liked this post

  7. #17
    Senior Member Frosty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    2w5 sx
    Posts
    5,779

    Default

    I mean I hope everyone would be against infanticide... I suppose though if the child was born terminally ill then maybe, I mean I always believed in euthanasia, but I think deciding something for someone else verses deciding something for yourself are just two totally different things. I dont know... I suppose if you are condemning a child to a life of suffering then maybe... My stance on this I suppose is similar to the one I have on abortion, only to be considered if the child is not viable for life.

  8. #18
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,805

    Default

    I will make a general statement that suffering and burdens are not to be avoided, but to be overcome. First of all, it's a losing battle to try to avoid them and second of all I think that overcoming burdens and suffering is what makes life the most meaningful. It's easier to say than do, but it's still true.

    So let's say someone has a baby and by the third month they develop a disease that will lead to nothing but pain and hardship.
    Is making the killing of that baby murder putting an undue hardship on the family?
    Even if it was the value of human life outweighs that anyway.
    But, I truly believe everyone has a choice and that society isn't doing anything bad to these people. They can choose to accept what has happened and seek to overcome it or they can let the suffering overwhelm them. The same will happen for the child. If the child doesn't reach an age of agency I still think their life has inherent value and that they can contribute positively to society under any circumstances.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  9. #19
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    I will make a general statement that suffering and burdens are not to be avoided, but to be overcome. First of all, it's a losing battle to try to avoid them and second of all I think that overcoming burdens and suffering is what makes life the most meaningful. It's easier to say than do, but it's still true.

    So let's say someone has a baby and by the third month they develop a disease that will lead to nothing but pain and hardship.
    Is making the killing of that baby murder putting an undue hardship on the family?
    Even if it was the value of human life outweighs that anyway.
    But, I truly believe everyone has a choice and that society isn't doing anything bad to these people. They can choose to accept what has happened and seek to overcome it or they can let the suffering overwhelm them. The same will happen for the child. If the child doesn't reach an age of agency I still think their life has inherent value and that they can contribute positively to society under any circumstances.
    You are assuming they always can be - in the case of fetal illness, euthanasia would actually be more ethical, at least for the individual. The only reason I am against it is because doing so would also reduce the availability of patients with fetal illnesses and decrease the chance of trying to treat them, studying it and potentially finding workable treatments that can improve their conditions, extend their lifespan or even cure.... But that's not a favor for the individual, and not a very clear decision either - it's a prioritization of a possible greater good over a known individual evil.

  10. #20
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    632

    Default Legality of Infanticide

    Infanticide a mother killing her child within the first year of life?

    Well that sounds like some form of mental illness after the berth of a child not being able to cope. It's a tricky topic. Seams to me to be a complex area of human frailty.

    I am shore the law has looked at this subject closely for some time, and there must be clear understandings of that takes place.

    I think it is a sad topic and I leave it to the experts.

    There are to many possibilities, why / what happened / was it done for selfish reasons / was it done via stress , hardship , delusional thinking.

    Life is life and death is death, the reasoning to take life is a question that requires reasoning. I guess the reason needs to be know and understood in contrast with the facts underling the action that took place infanticide.

Similar Threads

  1. Legality of euthanasia
    By Luke O in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 04-26-2015, 12:15 AM
  2. Uruguay legalizes sale and distribution of Marijuana
    By Typh0n in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-02-2014, 10:18 AM
  3. "Mystery" Tours and the threat of legal action
    By matmos in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-08-2010, 08:35 PM
  4. On legality of Infanticide
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 176
    Last Post: 11-24-2008, 07:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO