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  1. #11
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    This seems odd to me, outside of the draw of Mecca and Medina. The Saudi's are Wahhabis and Sunni. Fundamentalists such as ISIS wouldn't have conflicting ideology with them. Plus it's not an unstable area at all. I just don't see them being a target.
    Actually, ISIS hates the Saudi regime because they aren't hardcore enough. They're too friendly with American infidels, and they also consider the Saudi regime to be apostates for allowing Shiites to make pilgrimage to Mecca.

    Al Qaeda has a major beef with the Saudis, too.

    There are many similarities with the ideology, but the difference is that the official Saudi version exists as a way of propping up the Saudi dynasty as "protectors of Islam", while the terrorist groups object to some of the more political compromises the Saudi regime has made. The Saud family created an aliiance with Wahabbi clerics to consolidate power, but they also decided to permit Shia pilgrims to visit Mecca because they didn't want to alienate the elites of the Hejaz region, where Mecca is located.

    Most of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia, and there's a history of events like the Grand Mosque seizure in the 70s, as well as assassinations due to dynastic struggles (and the Saudi royal family is ridiculously large).

    I'll qualify things by adding that I'm not an expert on any of this, and most of this information I have gotten from reading articles online, rather than any full length books on the subject.

    The Saudi regime spearheaded a peace initiative with Israel (which Netanyahu stupidly rejected) because they're so freaked out about ISIS. It's actually one of ISIS's chief targets. If they succeeded in getting control of Mecca and Medina, they'd gain a lot more legitimacy.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  2. #12
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    The only thing that could stop Iran's nuclear program is war. Boots on the ground, airstrikes, all out.

    Short of that, they will have the bomb sooner or later.

    In the current situation the question is whether the deal ensures a bomb later or sooner.

    Much as humanity might like to, you can't put nuclear tech back in the bag. The horse has left the barn.

    Our focus moving forward needs to be keeping good track of the weapons in existence, and keeping them out of the hands of non state actors.

  3. #13
    Listening Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    If Iran gets nukes, then Saudi Arabia might start developing their own.
    They would very likely not. Saudi Arabia holds a great deal of corruption in its system yet their system is moving and working as they wish it to work. It is not like other parts of the middle east that hold far less stable governmental structures and constant tensions in the country because of overthrown governments and the like. Don't get me wrong, Saudi Arabia has a lot of instability in many of its parts, but the most stable parts are held in the major and more developed cities like their capital Riyadh, Jeddah, Mecca and Medina over the far less developed ones and the ones further away.
    Also, Saudi Arabia holds a treaty with the US and are considered their allies. They are not a rogue state like Iran. Your fears are a slightly overboard.
    Last edited by Oaky; 04-10-2015 at 01:25 PM. Reason: I wrote America instead of Saudi Arabia in the second last sentence...

  4. #14
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default Nuclear Plant in Iranian Desert Emerges as Flash Point in Talks

    I have amended my post it was a bit political,. Best leave the political to the experts I have negative things to report when I look at the normal practises of many Nations. I am not always impressed by the Human Global Political Statuesque.
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 04-12-2015 at 06:28 AM.

  5. #15
    Member anastasiaromanova's Avatar
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    @KitchenFly,

    Ah, CuisineMouchie, your post is so disappointing. No brownie points for you today, not even a pun, from me.

    Unless you consider brownie and cuisine a pun, but it was unintentional so it doesn't count.
    Likes Julius_Van_Der_Beak liked this post

  6. #16
    Senior Member riva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oaky View Post
    They are not a rogue state like Iran.
    Off topic post here; why isn't Israel in this list? I love that country, admire it and genuinely wish for its future success, survival and peace but it seems it fits the main criterea of the definition of a rogue state which is -

    Rogue state is a controversial term applied by some international theorists to states they consider threatening to the world's peace.
    .

  7. #17
    respect the brick C.J.Woolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The only thing that could stop Iran's nuclear program is war. Boots on the ground, airstrikes, all out.

    Short of that, they will have the bomb sooner or later.
    I doubt that even war would stop Iran from building a nuke. Airstrikes won't do it; I mean the kind of war that would really stop a nuclear program that is mostly underground, a ground war followed by an indefinite occupation. The number of troops required would be in the hundreds of thousands. The political will for it doesn't exist.

    Making a deal with Iran is the least bad option IMO.

  8. #18
    Senior Member KitchenFly's Avatar
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    Default Nuclear Plant in Iranian Desert Emerges as Flash Point in Talks

    Quote Originally Posted by anastasiaromanova View Post
    @KitchenFly,

    Ah, CuisineMouchie, your post is so disappointing. No brownie points for you today, not even a pun, from me.

    Unless you consider brownie and cuisine a pun, but it was unintentional so it doesn't count.

    You will be pleased to see I have transformed my post sweetness.
    Last edited by KitchenFly; 04-12-2015 at 06:30 AM.

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