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  1. #21
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Its a sign that Britain does not have free speech or religious freedom
    There was an interesting debate on youtube (probably still is) with Christopher Hitchin over whether the license to freedom of speech must, by definition, include the license to offend. It's a tricky one to call.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #22
    Pubic Enemy #1 Crabs's Avatar
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    this overly PC bullshit is getting way out of hand. he was fined £200 and ordered to pay £1,200 to a man who was offended by his comments. Initially, the preacher refused to pay £250 in compensation to a gay man he offended and only relented when he was told he would face 45 days in prison if he did not pay the amount.

    this is the bottom line: “As long as there is no incitement to violence, then people should be allowed to speak freely without fearing legal repercussions.”

    Overd has been preaching through a loudspeaker for the past five years in Taunton and has faced previous legal action. He was acquitted of similar charges in 2012.
    having said that, i don't think the public should be forced to listen to people talking on loudspeakers, regardless of what's being said. it's obnoxious. if this preacher was out on a street, rather than preaching in a church or a designated area for those who want to listen, then i don't have a problem with law-enforcement stepping in.

  3. #23
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    There was an interesting debate on youtube (probably still is) with Christopher Hitchin over whether the license to freedom of speech must, by definition, include the license to offend. It's a tricky one to call.
    Freedom of speech is not a license to spout information one knows to be wrong. We have libel laws, for instance, and others that require truth in advertising. I suspect there might be constraints on what members of certain professions can say (e.g. doctors), and there have been (in)famous cases of teachers being forced to read disclaimers about topics like evolution.

    I'm far less bothered by offensive material than by inaccurate material.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  4. #24
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Freedom of speech is not a license to spout information one knows to be wrong. We have libel laws, for instance, and others that require truth in advertising. I suspect there might be constraints on what members of certain professions can say (e.g. doctors), and there have been (in)famous cases of teachers being forced to read disclaimers about topics like evolution.

    I'm far less bothered by offensive material than by inaccurate material.
    See that's the thing, free is precisely that, free of constraint. Everyone says they believe in freedom of speech but everyone has their own definition of the limitations of that freedom. Limitations are to be expected but we can hardly moan when someone defines them differently.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  5. #25
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    Cool, we can make a living off of being offended!
    I am offended that you are implying that my offense taking is for monetary gain! (it's so easy to be offended)

    @OP It appears that the UK is quite dissimilar to the U.S. as pertains to speech laws.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    The odd thing is I live in the Uk and have never felt that urge to take the train trip down to London, stand on a corner and shout at people about my oh so important opinion.

    Perhaps I should start?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  7. #27
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    The odd thing is I live in the Uk and have never felt that urge to take the train trip down to London, stand on a corner and shout at people about my oh so important opinion.

    Perhaps I should start?
    Just make sure you got a megaphone.

    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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  8. #28
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    I am offended that you are implying that my offense taking is for monetary gain! (it's so easy to be offended)

    @OP It appears that the UK is quite dissimilar to the U.S. as pertains to speech laws.
    The two cultures share a root but at points it is incredibly hard to see.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  9. #29
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    See that's the thing, free is precisely that, free of constraint. Everyone says they believe in freedom of speech but everyone has their own definition of the limitations of that freedom. Limitations are to be expected but we can hardly moan when someone defines them differently.
    Can I presume, then, that you are one of those folks who think it's OK to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, to use the conventional example?

    Every freedom is limited eventually when it limits freedom in others. Absolute freedom for anyone is an unreachable ideal. To maximize each individual's freedom, we must also constrain it somewhat, lest it infringe disproportionately on the freedom of another. To use another common example: my freedom to punch you ends just before your nose.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes Hard liked this post

  10. #30
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Can I presume, then, that you are one of those folks who think it's OK to yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, to use the conventional example?

    Every freedom is limited eventually when it limits freedom in others. Absolute freedom for anyone is an unreachable ideal. To maximize each individual's freedom, we must also constrain it somewhat, lest it infringe disproportionately on the freedom of another. To use another common example: my freedom to punch you ends just before your nose.
    Precisely. There are limits on what can be said otherwise you could construct the most ludicrous and horrifying campaigns. We do, however, spend an inordinate amount of time, as a group of "first world" countries, bitching about it on one side or the other. I do have to wonder how many people actually understand what this freedom means in the real world.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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