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  1. #1
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    Default Any Hamiltonians out there?

    I took some political philosophy classes in college but didn't go much further than the Federalist Papers when it came to Hamilton, but after reading a lot of financial histories and the like I've continually been bumping into Hamilton and his extraordinary policies and thinking. As someone that always thought more along the lines of a libertarian, T. Jefferson fanboy, I now want to know everything there is about this Hamiltonian movement. It seems far more realistic than anything libertarian thinking has to offer.

    So any consolidated platforms? Do you still want protective tariffs? What do you think of the Fed Reserve vs Hamilton's First Bank of the United States? Are you still supportive of a strong military? What are your thoughts on entitlements/securities? How about foreign involvement?

  2. #2
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post
    So any consolidated platforms? Do you still want protective tariffs? What do you think of the Fed Reserve vs Hamilton's First Bank of the United States? Are you still supportive of a strong military? What are your thoughts on entitlements/securities? How about foreign involvement?
    I don't think such a thing exists in such a coherent form any more, although there might be fragmented echoes of it remaining. The history of politics shifts according to what the issues of the day are, and what the various coalitions define themselves as. The Whig party was in some ways the heirs of Hamilton, but the issue of slavery became more prominent and eventually split the party. The Republican party was formed from its ashes. A different coalition was created, centered around a different issue.

    There might be individuals who have Hamiltonian beliefs, but it doesn't exist as a stance supported by any political organization right now.

    I suppose it is not unreasonable to conclude that the Democrats are more amenable to Hamiltonianism, but modern-day Democrats are often not advocates of economic protectionism, to my dismay.

    Hamilton also seems to have been incredibly progressive in racial matters for his day.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    I understand that the political landscape changes over time, just as political view in response change over time. I'd like to think that Hamilton and Jefferson wouldn't be at such strong odds now as they were then. And I'll never understand the idea of calling the Republicans the GOP when they've only existed since the Civil War in contrast to the 1790s founding of the Democrats.

    All that aside though, I'm glad you mentioned your stance on protectionism because that is one area that I haven't understood the logic behind. So what are you seeing as the benefits to it versus that of international competition?

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    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13 View Post

    All that aside though, I'm glad you mentioned your stance on protectionism because that is one area that I haven't understood the logic behind. So what are you seeing as the benefits to it versus that of international competition?
    I'm not incredibly versed in economic theory, but with international competition, it seems to me that this is something we might not always benefit from. International competition also tends to lead to the outsourcing of labor, which has a number of deleterious effects, IMO. There are lots of small towns all over the U.S. that are dying because the major source of economic activity has now moved over seas.

    What is the argument for international competition? Lots of people seem to assume that free trade is good, but it's not clear to me why.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  5. #5
    Senior Member Evil Otter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I'm not incredibly versed in economic theory, but with international competition, it seems to me that this is something we might not always benefit from. International competition also tends to lead to the outsourcing of labor, which has a number of deleterious effects, IMO. There are lots of small towns all over the U.S. that are dying because the major source of economic activity has now moved over seas.

    What is the argument for international competition? Lots of people seem to assume that free trade is good, but it's not clear to me why.
    As I understand it, it has to due with globalization, so if you feel globalization is a good thing then international competition is a good thing. I'll never call it "free" trade because no such has or ever could exist. There will always be political barriers so long as the actors represent separate locales (even if those barriers aren't written into law). Like you said though there are definitely down-sides from a U.S. perspective but those don't have to be permanent, we can evolve. I'll link a Forbes article by John Tamny, but short of it is that we can evolve. If a low-paying (or inflated-paying) job goes away because it can be done cheaper elsewhere or by a machine then I shouldn't lament, I should learn to fix the machine, or better yet learn how to make the machine cheaper and/or better. In that sense competition breeds growth. Would Lebron exist as he does if Jordan and Kobe never played basketball? Would Jobs have come back to Apple if it had monopolized the market instead of almost being completely pushed out? And if you've driven Ford or GM trucks all your life then you'll know that around the 2000's they started getting exponential improvements, interestingly enough at about the same time that Toyota and Nissan trucks started being seen a lot more on U.S. roads.

    The biggest down-side from my perspective is that economies have and will always move faster than people. It might take Detroit 3 generations to recover but I imagine that when it does it will look more like a gleaming symbol of commerce then the Tim Burton's Gotham-esk cesspool it looks like today. Funny enough though it was Jefferson, not Hamilton, that wanted us to keep the status quo and build an American empire on an agrarian society. Hamilton always wanted us to embrace the future which at his time meant industrial manufacturing and finance. I have a feeling he would want us pursuing technology & robotics, aero/astro, alternative energy, and as always finance if he were alive today. I do wonder though if instead of fighting globalization, which seems inevitable, if he would fight to get out in front of it and dictate the terms of this new global governing body.

    This is the article if you'd like to read it:
    Detroit Is Dying Because GM Stuck Around, New York City Booms Because Nabisco Did Not - Forbes

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    Senior Member BWCB1890's Avatar
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    I consider myself a Hamiltonian for the most part. I would consider the establishment wing of the Republican Party to be Hamiltonian, though sometimes they adopt Jeffersonian rhetoric. Unfortunately, even if Hamilton was the best of the Founders he was still a traitor to the British crown. If I was alive back then, I would have supported King George III and fought against the rebel scum.
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    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    At first I thought you meant these:



    then wondered why that would be in the Politics subforum.
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