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  1. #851
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    Take a look at the world record for swimming. If you are logical or rational, then it is pretty obvious who is superior when it comes to swimming. Therefore, it is not my opinion if I were to make a declarative statement stating that “men are superior to women when it comes to swimming.”

    List of world records in swimming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  2. #852
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    By the way, aren't men also taller and don't they have a bigger brain too?

  3. #853

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    I am curious. Is the same true for this:

    Meaning: If you are against generalizing a wide spectrum of people composed of multiple individuals and groups under a narrow limited stereotype to present a specific critique as one with an umbrella of narratives, do you apply the same principle universally?

    Or do you follow that feminism is too wide and diverse to talk about in the context of feminist organizations, practices, lobbying history, feminist theory or feminist authors, but would not let such logic prevent you from pointing at a much wider collective - yet one that doesn't even extend the courtesy of sharing the same banner - only to call it patriarchy and criticize it as if it was a united organized club that meets on Tuesdays to synchronize it's oppressive agenda?

    All feminism is bad.
    All patriarchy is bad.

    I refuse the former statement, and support the latter statement. It remains a rational argument.

    All feminism is good.
    All patriarchy is good.

    If I accept the former statement, and also accept the latter statement, it ceases to remain a rational argument.
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  4. #854

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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    By the way, aren't men also taller and don't they have a bigger brain too?
    Blue whales are taller than humans and also have bigger brains. So do elephants.
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  5. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    All feminism is bad.
    All patriarchy is bad.

    I refuse the former statement, and support the latter statement. It remains a rational argument.
    The point didn't show on narrative road? I didn't ask you how you felt about either feminists or the patriarchy, I asked if you are capable of been true to your rational self-view and extend your defensiveness against collective feminists arguments to include collectivist arguments within feminist theory, i.e. the all mighty patriarchy. I take it the answer is "No".

  6. #856

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    No offense but you seem touchy as all hell. What was posted was a parallel. Discrimination of any type shares a core of poor thinking with other types of discrimination.
    No offense, but you didn't understand the point that I was illustrating.

    Are all types of feminism, discrimination? If so, explain why.

    Are all forms of racism, discrimination? Yes!

    In order for something to be a parallel for comparison, it must first be...a parallel.

    Good point.

    To give an example though the BNP, UKIP and EDF parties in the UK have all got bad reputations as racist. Few support racism. However, they all represented the common people's concerns with immigration and whether it was too much. The end result has been that the main parties have not been allowed to skirt to issue just because they didn't want to appear to be less than perfectly pc.

    What I'm trying to get across is that the ideals involved in feminism are worth working with (or however you would prefer that phrased) but the term itself has been poisoned and is taken as a combative stance even when it's not meant to be. Yes you could continue to use it but is that a logical decision or an emotive one?
    So you're arguing terminology? So, if feminism was called another name, like, say, Dickerydoodoo, it would be okay? A mere renaming would take away the (perceived) poisoning and combative stance, and solve all those problems? Is that what you're proposing? Is that a logical decision of yours, or an emotive one?

    So you're a part time feminist. Gotcha.
    Yes, just like a woman with kids who work, is a part-time mother. Or, an atheist who understands why other people believe in a god, is a part-time atheist. Or, a capitalist who is for responsible capitalism but against unrestrained capitalism should call himself (or herself) a part-time capitalist.

    Am I doing your "logic" right?

    You only have the label when it suits you and everyone should use their extreme psychic powers to know this.

    All definitions involve stereotypes by default. It's called language.
    Chomsky is shaking his head at you. Stereotypes, by definition, only applies to individuals; not all definitions of words in a language.

    You chose to apply a stereotype to yourself whilst thinking that you can do this and no one will change their thinking based upon it. That's just delusional.
    Rage over calm logic will not help you construct statements which will aid your cause.
    ^ Reminds me of the line, "Filled with sound and fury, signifying nothing..."

  7. #857

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    The point didn't show on narrative road? I didn't ask you how you felt about either feminists or the patriarchy, I asked if you are capable of been true to your rational self-view and extend your defensiveness against collective feminists arguments to include collectivist arguments within feminist theory, i.e. the all mighty patriarchy. I take it the answer is "No".
    You are setting up a false dichotomy, which I am refusing. So, no.

    There are common threads within the multiple feminist narratives. I don't think I ever denied that. Gender equality, being one. And, patriarchy being an unjust social system (the power dynamics in a socially constructed society). Whether they meet on a Tuesday or only on Superbowl Sundays, I don't know about that.

    Now ask me if I think feminism benefits only women. Or, if patriarchy only hurts women.

  8. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Now ask me if I think feminism benefits only women. Or, if patriarchy only hurts women.
    The relevant question for me is how you propose to address these issues. Patriarchy is a piece of terminology; I'm not threatened by the use of it in and of itself.

    Do you think these problems could be solved by, say, men stepping back rather than dominating the discussion? Have men dominated conversation for too long, and now it's time for women's voices to be dominant?
    Forget the dead you've left; they will not follow you.
    The vagabond who is rapping at your door, is standing in the clothes you once wore.

  9. #859

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    Earlier there were discussions about feminism and how it, the 'entity', (supposedly) abhors women who are traditionally feminine.

    As Game of Thrones is a current obsession of mine, I was ecstatic to find a blogger who wrote up her thoughts on some of its prominent female characters, from a feminist perspective. The write-up of Sansa Stark was particularly illuminating in this regard.

    Here goes my attempt at marrying my current obsession with feminism:

    In Defense of Sansa Stark | Feminist Fiction

    [...]
    But these mistakes are only reprehensible to readers when they come from a girl, interested in girly things and making girly mistakes. Because viewers have been taught that “girly” is automatically bad.

    I love bad-ass, sword-wielding heroines as much as the next person (Arya and Brienne are two of my other favorite characters in anything ever), but the focus on this sort of female character — the oft-cited “strong female character” — seems to suggest that femininity is still bad, and that women can only be strong by adopting stereotypically male roles and attitudes. There’s nothing wrong with Arya declaring that being a Lady does not suit her and forging her own path, but saying that all female characters must take this attitude is as sexist and dismissive as saying that all female characters must be weak and take a backseat in events. Femininity is not bad, just as masculinity is not necessarily good. [...]
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  10. #860

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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    The relevant question for me is how you propose to address these issues. Patriarchy is a piece of terminology; I'm not threatened by the use of it in and of itself.
    I don't see it as a mere terminology, or issue of terminology. I think, just like with feminism, focusing so much on terminology, rather than the meat of the issue detracts from the issue(s) at hand.

    Do you think these problems could be solved by, say, men stepping back rather than dominating the discussion? Have men dominated conversation for too long, and now it's time for women's voices to be dominant?[
    Oh, hells no! That would be counterproductive. We need all hands on deck. I think we need to move away from this language of "dominates"/whose turn it is to dominate. At least, once away from the bedrooms of consenting adults. That would be a good first start.
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