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Thread: 3rd wave feminism

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    How can I say it? Because it's not true. Parenting time does not get divvied up like that (unless BOTH parents want and agree to it). Marital assets are split. No one is taking The Man's Goods and giving it away to his undeserving, soon-to-be-ex-spouse. I was a SAHM and I receive no alimony. Nor do I get child support right now...it's something I'm having to fight for. I had to get my ass back to school, earn a degree, and get to work to support my kids and myself. It's so common that many community colleges have programs for women in situations like mine to help them. If the courts favored women so much, there wouldn't be programs like this. But I'd rather be where I'm at then back where I was, barely making it or not!

    I think the family court system is messed up, but it's not what you are claiming here. It can be an ugly mess when both parties are angry, bitter and out for revenge but it's not always that way. Every divorce is different, every family's situation is different but you will find that the court is very much like King Solomon and willing to split everything. Money, the kids, even the dog in half. They don't have the time or resources to favor anyone so they have parenting schedules, child support worksheets, etc., and they apply except in extraordinary circumstances or unless both parents wish for a depature from these standards.
    I don't see every man gaining custody of their children nearly as much as women, I don't buy it every divorce the women gets the majority of the time this is pretty much a fact. Splitting martial assets is complete bullshit, why should someone who makes more than the other person be getting 50% of their income? man or women? how is this fair? Also if your assets are taken away from you how are you suppose to pay for child support? The women can be taking your assets and blowing it on a new car it makes no sense. No offense but I don't think your situation is very common I keep hearing stats of men getting completely burned after marriage and committing suicide. I think men should however be paying for child support for sure and alimony only if the women isn't working or working a low income job.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Something like 20% of men age 20-35 are getting married. There is a good reason for this though and men don't want to deal with divorce and have their money taken away by the courts and given to women. I hope this low marriage trend continues.
    How the shit are you going to have "the family" without a higher marriage rate?
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    How the shit are you going to have "the family" without a higher marriage rate?
    I think the system needs to crash first before reformation.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I don't see every man gaining custody of their children nearly as much as women, I don't buy it every divorce the women gets the majority of the time this is pretty much a fact. Splitting martial assets is complete bullshit, why should someone who makes more than the other person be getting 50% of their income? man or women? how is this fair? Also if your assets are taken away from you how are you suppose to pay for child support? The women can be taking your assets and blowing it on a new car it makes no sense. No offense but I don't think your situation is very common I keep hearing stats of men getting completely burned after marriage and committing suicide. I think men should however be paying for child support for sure and alimony only if the women isn't working or working a low income job.
    I see I'm not being heard here. I'm not just telling you about my situation. I'm telling you how family court is set up. If you want facts, then talk to someone who works in family court instead of angry people spouting how they got burned in their divorce on the internet. I got burned in mine, too (and continue to deal with a great deal of bullshit from it) but I'm sure as hell am not going to take it out on men.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    I see I'm not being heard here. I'm not just telling you about my situation. I'm telling you how family court is set up. If you want facts, then talk to someone who works in family court instead of angry people spouting how they got burned in their divorce on the internet. I got burned in mine, too (and continue to deal with a great deal of bullshit from it) but I'm sure as hell am not going to take it out on men.
    I'm not taking it out on women though I'm taking it out on the court system and it's feminist influence big difference. If what you say is true about yourself though I do feel sympathy for you, I'm just not convinced this is the case for the majority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I don't think it's a joke...
    I understand how you might not think it's a funny joke, given how you clearly don't like Obama. But to honestly say that you don't think his comment was a joke, you must either have some kind of extreme disorder which makes you completely incapable of processing humor -- unlikely, given your signature -- or you must have an agenda to push.

    Look, yeah of course Obama made a flattering joke to a crowd that probably had a lot of women in it -- that's what politicians do. They throw in a bit of tailored humor as they express their values, past accomplishments, and future hopes to their constituents. If it were a Republican politician speaking to an NRA crowd, he would have made a joke about men knowing how to aim, or whatever.

    So just as you're not convinced that Redbone's experience in family court is representative of the majority of divorce cases, you'll forgive me if I'm not convinced that feminism has or will destroy anything. Our culture is changing, as it always has been, but I don't see any sinister feminist influences. In fact most fears about feminism I've heard directly contradict what the feminists I know believe, and how I understand the feminist movement. For example, your objection to women getting preference when it comes to child custody is shared by the feminism I know. As Magic Poriferan mentioned, the feminists I know would say that no gender-based preference should be shown to divorcing parents, because people ought to be treated as individuals rather than as stereotypes. Merit over birth, and all that.

    Other objections to feminism I've heard have been things taken out of context and warped into political ammunition, like that MRA video. In order to make it seem as if Obama had said 'women are smarter' with a straight face, this loon had to cut the speech down to a two-second clip! And then he claims that the joke is "the most egregious and devastating insult I've ever seen or heard of." I mean, really MRA dude? You can't think of anything more insulting to women than 'women are smarter'? I'm sure you at least have a better imagination, jixmixfix.

    Anyway, maybe some feminists do want and advocate crazy things. I've never encountered a group completely free of nutcases. But thus far, feminism is looking a lot better than the fear-mongerers.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Something like 20% of men age 20-35 are getting married. There is a good reason for this though and men don't want to deal with divorce and have their money taken away by the courts and given to women. I hope this low marriage trend continues.
    As salaries and employment prospects for women improve, we should see much less of that as the women will not need the financial support of exes. Women's economic independence is one of the goals of feminism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Ideals devoid of pragmatism simply cannot take shape in a situation where people are struggling to make ends meet, and this is why most feminists are White middle and upper-middle class women (few upper class women are feminists, for different reasons that I may discuss another time) who, ironically, rely on an older man financially.
    Perhaps most people developing feminist theory belong to the upper classes. When it comes to practical reform, however, the middle and lower classes have been very active, having the most at stake. This includes working to get equal pay and access to jobs, family leave, medical insurance and women's health services, etc. Upper class women didn't need or already had these things. In earlier generations, poor women lobbied for the 40 hour workweek, ending child labor, improving factory safety, and even the right to vote since they understood that without a vote, they had no voice in the political process. These reforms might not seem very "feminist" since they helped men as well as women, but that is the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I am less worked up about feminism than I used to be because is on its last legs. Why? The Latinos, Pakistanis, Turks, and other immigrant groups are not sympathetic to feminism. If they become dominant in Western countries, feminists are among those who will lose the most.
    So now you are willing to tolerate immigration and cultural intermixing, if only to preserve or reinstate gender bias? I thought you were more principled than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    What if the lower marriage rate corresponds to more people doing all of the stuff that happens in families, just without bothering to get married? Would that be the destruction of the family?
    Of course, IF one defines "family" as one man married to one woman where he is the breadwinner and she the homemaker. The most beautiful gown or suit can easily turn into a straitjacket if ill-fitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    In a way that actually isolates the fact of it being a father figure that's missing?
    I have read similar accounts. An important aspect of feminism is expanding opportunities for men as well as women. Men should not be criticised for taking part in child-rearing and an interest in home life. As more men become more comfortable with this, more children should have actual supportive and present fathers.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Do you not understand what feminism actually does? It creates opportunity for women stating that women are oppressed to men and that they need to acquire special privilege. Women are better than men in general when it comes to english, and languages. So what ends up happening is that an entire education system becomes catered towards women. Feminism is an ideology it doesn't actually take into account a women's actual needs. For example feminism pushes the idea that women should be working and if she doesn't enter the work force she is shamed upon. If a women chooses with her free will not to work she is shamed upon by society due to feminist ideological influence. It's not that men do not value education it is that what is being taught in the system caters towards a women's strengths. The education system has no interest in changing this however go figure.
    So what are "a woman's actual needs"? What about women whose needs are different? Are they not then women, or just bad women? Feminism pushes the idea that men should not be judged for leaving the workforce to care for family, any more than women should be judged for going to work. The full range of options should be available to everyone. I still see both kinds of judgment happening, though judgment on men taking non-traditional paths is much harsher. All feminism wants for women is the same "special privilege" men have always had; and conversely, to give men "special privileges" of not having to shoulder the breadwinner reponsibility alone, or being able to express themselves emotionally without being called a sissy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I don't see every man gaining custody of their children nearly as much as women, I don't buy it every divorce the women gets the majority of the time this is pretty much a fact. Splitting martial assets is complete bullshit, why should someone who makes more than the other person be getting 50% of their income? man or women? how is this fair? Also if your assets are taken away from you how are you suppose to pay for child support? The women can be taking your assets and blowing it on a new car it makes no sense. No offense but I don't think your situation is very common I keep hearing stats of men getting completely burned after marriage and committing suicide. I think men should however be paying for child support for sure and alimony only if the women isn't working or working a low income job.
    On the one hand, you are decrying families where women work outside the home as contributing to all kinds of social ills. On the other hand, you are objecting to a wife getting a large share of her ex's income in a divorce. In case you hadn't noticed, homemakers don't draw a salary, contribute to retirement plans, or get medical insurance through a job. Just a few decades ago, they couldn't even get a credit card on their own. You can't have it both ways. Either husbands share their income in a divorce, or women develop the means to be self-supporting, which means maintaining a job or profession.
    In science, when human behavior enters the equation, things go nonlinear. That's why Physics is easy and Sociology is hard. -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Passacaglia View Post
    I understand how you might not think it's a funny joke, given how you clearly don't like Obama. But to honestly say that you don't think his comment was a joke, you must either have some kind of extreme disorder which makes you completely incapable of processing humor -- unlikely, given your signature -- or you must have an agenda to push.

    Look, yeah of course Obama made a flattering joke to a crowd that probably had a lot of women in it -- that's what politicians do. They throw in a bit of tailored humor as they express their values, past accomplishments, and future hopes to their constituents. If it were a Republican politician speaking to an NRA crowd, he would have made a joke about men knowing how to aim, or whatever.

    So just as you're not convinced that Redbone's experience in family court is representative of the majority of divorce cases, you'll forgive me if I'm not convinced that feminism has or will destroy anything. Our culture is changing, as it always has been, but I don't see any sinister feminist influences. In fact most fears about feminism I've heard directly contradict what the feminists I know believe, and how I understand the feminist movement. For example, your objection to women getting preference when it comes to child custody is shared by the feminism I know. As Magic Poriferan mentioned, the feminists I know would say that no gender-based preference should be shown to divorcing parents, because people ought to be treated as individuals rather than as stereotypes. Merit over birth, and all that.

    Other objections to feminism I've heard have been things taken out of context and warped into political ammunition, like that MRA video. In order to make it seem as if Obama had said 'women are smarter' with a straight face, this loon had to cut the speech down to a two-second clip! And then he claims that the joke is "the most egregious and devastating insult I've ever seen or heard of." I mean, really MRA dude? You can't think of anything more insulting to women than 'women are smarter'? I'm sure you at least have a better imagination, jixmixfix.

    Anyway, maybe some feminists do want and advocate crazy things. I've never encountered a group completely free of nutcases. But thus far, feminism is looking a lot better than the fear-mongerers.
    "women are smarter this is true". - Barrack Obama. keep diluting yourself.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    "women are smarter this is true". - Barrack Obama. keep diluting yourself.
    Have you had the opportunity to ask Barrack Obama on what basis he finds women more intelligent and in which way he thinks they are?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    keep diluting yourself.
    Deluding.
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