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  1. #1601
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    In a way, your responses to my posts are pretty much why I don't trust women. I've spent a few long posts trying to explain where I'm coming from on this MGTOW thing and why I can't be bothered dealing with women IRL. And you keep coming back with a response to the effect of "Well, that's because you're broken. You're damaged goods. You just don't know any better. Maybe someday you'll get better like my mother and I did, and you'll see that you were wrong."

    This is why women are scary. They just don't listen to men. They refuse to understand that No means No, when it comes from a man. I'm 60 years old. I know myself and my story and my life. I've been married twice for a total of 20 years, and I've been in many relationships in between. I'm not some kid wet behind the ears speaking of things I know nothing about. I'm trying to tell you my story, and you keep responding that I'm just broken and don't know what I'm talking about.

    Please understand, I'm not trying to be snarky. I know that you mean well, and at the end of your latest post you did at least acknowledge what I was saying to the point of saying, "Do you." I'm grateful that you yielded at least that much ground.

    But like I say, this exchange between us has been a good example of why women are scary. I try to explain where I stand, and they just don't hear my story. In effect, they respond, "You're broken. You don't know what you're talking about. I know your life and your needs better than you."

    And I say, "Okay, whatever." And I back away slowly, and then I turn and run. As fast as I can.

    See how that works?
    I don't understand, nor blame at all, women who just swear off men forever in their lives from their experiences.. I don't really understand, but still don't blame men when they do the same. You can get by while swearing off men or women in a one swoop.

    ... I wouldn't pretend you aren't broken about it. I mean. You're literally saying half of the entire world's population is not something you want anything to do with anymore. There's something broken there... I can't really buy the idea that you've traveled the whole world and every woman you met was just awful and not worth any effort, platonic or otherwise, at all... But your experiences are very valid for you. At the end of the day, if coping with your corner of the world and what's happened in your life means pushing women away and you can get along respectfully and peacefully in life, I'm probably not going to give you shit for that. It seems to be a bit of denial to pretend it isn't a broken thing.. but a totally unhealthy thing for someone at your age? Meh. Not really the biggest concern as long as you're capable of having normal interactions with women you pass by on the daily and it isn't stressing you out.

    We all have things that aren't necessarily in tip-top shape but isn't so harmful either. For me, I can't show public displays of affection very well.. in private I am fine, but in public? Nah. Cant do it. While the relationship with that in my head is not very healthy, it is also not at all detrimental to my lifestyle and the bigger picture. It's not a serious bother... maybe something I could eventually come to work on, but I've got bigger fish to fry and it isn't hurting my relationships to have that aspect to me.

    @Coriolis
    Salome attacked women as much as men, even ones who agreed with her. I don't think the issue there was really animosity toward men specifically. In any case, I suggest you treat women the same as you treat men, one human being to another.
    While she definitely lashed out at women and had some general .. very passionate.. debates.. I'd say men were definitely straight up attacked by her. I can't remember the two threads in particular I was reading where my thought was basically.. "Wow.. so, the human experience is invalid here because they're men?" The resentment towards men was palpable in her posts.
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  2. #1602
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    Whatever. We're done with this exchange.
    Expected.

    Mind your own business. You don't know me or my life
    If you want to have people mind their business best not to engage at all. If you're going to take those things said that differ from your life choices and conflate that with some imagined dictatoral mandate? That's you.

    I did my best to try to make the distinction between stating my opinion and identifying your choice. I spelled that shit out. Knowing that it would be met as a presumptive "you're telling me what to do."

    You equated my opinion with telling you how to live your life. Not so.

    Can't criticize then when questioned call foul - especially when I have not done any of what you allege in any regard.

    Or, you could....

    I think it's called having your cake and eating it, too.

    Same thing you accuse others of. It works for you as well. I've got no problem calling out double standards.
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  3. #1603
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I don't understand, nor blame at all, women who just swear off men forever in their lives from their experiences.. I don't really understand, but still don't blame men when they do the same. You can get by while swearing off men or women in a one swoop.

    ... I wouldn't pretend you aren't broken about it. I mean. You're literally saying half of the entire world's population is not something you want anything to do with anymore. There's something broken there... I can't really buy the idea that you've traveled the whole world and every woman you met was just awful and not worth any effort, platonic or otherwise, at all... But your experiences are very valid for you. At the end of the day, if coping with your corner of the world and what's happened in your life means pushing women away and you can get along respectfully and peacefully in life, I'm probably not going to give you shit for that. It seems to be a bit of denial to pretend it isn't a broken thing.. but a totally unhealthy thing for someone at your age? Meh. Not really the biggest concern as long as you're capable of having normal interactions with women you pass by on the daily and it isn't stressing you out. [...]
    I apologize if I've been less than courteous in my responses. But in turn, I think women are willfully ignorant about how much toxic waste they have dumped and continue to dump into relations between men and women.

    If a man points out the rip-offs on the female side, he gets told that he's broken and needs to go to therapy. So men have to wait around for an "equity feminist" to point it out. And only then, *maybe* some women will notice the problem.

    For examples, see this old post: Misandry - Is it an issue with females?

    Aso, see this YouTube video: Link: Dr. Helen Smith PhD — Men On Strike - YouTube



    It's what it is. I don't really care. IRL, I just work around it and do my own thing. IRL, I deal with women without any problems. But here at TypoC, I'm honest and point out: It's tricky. You gotta play it safe these days. You have to enforce some personal boundaries. That's just the way it is.

    To the extent that posters like Eruca and MDP2525 were asking about MGTOW, I was being honest with them. And I got told to go to therapy... So I just own it. If the women here want to see me as a woman-hater, then so be it. Who cares, it's just another label that gets tossed around. If I were to hit on women, I would be a "pervy old man" and a "predator." If I *dont* hit on women and instead maintain a respectful distance from them, then apparently I must be a woman-hater. Again, it's just labels.

    Oh well, I'm out of here.

  4. #1604
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    I apologize if I've been less than courteous in my responses. But in turn, I think women are willfully ignorant about how much toxic waste they have dumped and continue to dump into relations between men and women.
    I would definitely say there are plenty of women who are as willfully ignorant as the men they are complaining about. It's a fairly human trait. I wouldn't say you've been rude at all, either, nothing to apologize about.

    If a man points out the rip-offs on the female side, he gets told that he's broken and needs to go to therapy.
    It isn't so much that pointing out the shortcomings of womenfolk you meet means you're broken and need therapy.. it's swearing off half the population under the pretense that all of them are like the ones you've interacted with that calls for the emotional baggage. But like I said, I don't find it to be a super pertinent thing to address. MDP and I are both young, so of course our first reaction is to say "Hey, you might try to work on that if you acknowledge all women are not necessarily that way.." but it's totally fine to say, "At my age? Meh." Particularly at your generation, there is still a LOT of traditional viewpoints.

    If the women here want to see me as a woman-hater, then so be it. Who cares, it's just another label that gets tossed around. If I were to hit on women, I would be a "pervy old man" and a "predator." If I *dont* hit on women and instead maintain a respectful distance from them, then apparently I must be a woman-hater. Again, it's just labels.
    Yeah, despite my stance on feminism (conscientious objector) I still get called a man-hater if I dare speak about particular groups of men not being stellar citizens of society and plainly pointing out flaws, even if I do and have done the same to women populations. It's the way of the world to throw out things that comfort people in distressing situations... labels comfort people.

    But as a very young woman who has had many older men as coworkers and friends, there is more to aging men than just those two categories. I never thought my older friends were perverts, or women hating if they were hesitant to want to be friends with me for fear of what others would think. People gotta protect themselves.
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  5. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I would definitely say there are plenty of women who are as willfully ignorant as the men they are complaining about. It's a fairly human trait. I wouldn't say you've been rude at all, either, nothing to apologize about.



    It isn't so much that pointing out the shortcomings of womenfolk you meet means you're broken and need therapy.. it's swearing off half the population under the pretense that all of them are like the ones you've interacted with that calls for the emotional baggage. But like I said, I don't find it to be a super pertinent thing to address. MDP and I are both young, so of course our first reaction is to say "Hey, you might try to work on that if you acknowledge all women are not necessarily that way.." but it's totally fine to say, "At my age? Meh." Particularly at your generation, there is still a LOT of traditional viewpoints.



    Yeah, despite my stance on feminism (conscientious objector) I still get called a man-hater if I dare speak about particular groups of men not being stellar citizens of society and plainly pointing out flaws, even if I do and have done the same to women populations. It's the way of the world to throw out things that comfort people in distressing situations... labels comfort people.

    But as a very young woman who has had many older men as coworkers and friends, there is more to aging men than just those two categories. I never thought my older friends were perverts, or women hating if they were hesitant to want to be friends with me for fear of what others would think. People gotta protect themselves.

    Well, thanks for being understanding, kyuuei. Sounds like you kinda get it.

    Anyway, it's been a useful experience to come here and be open about the MGTOW thing. At the MGTOW message board where I post, pretty much everyone says that you have to hide your MGTOW affiliation. Women just can't handle men who go MGTOW. They'll ask a lot of questions, and then they'll label you a nutcase or a freak when they hear the details. They just can't handle the idea that a guy isn't interested in relationships and sex and all that.

    So it was useful to try out that experience here. And sure enough, women asked a lot of questions and then told me I need to get therapy and work on myself.

    The thing is, a single older man has to say *something* when he socializes. As I said in an earlier post, women at my age are pretty aggressive when they see a prospect. As a man gets older, women get more aggressive and they come after you with all their baggage and drama. It's like being the hot chick in a crowd of horny teenage boys. They just hover around you, salivating. For a while it's fun and flattering. But eventually the drama starts up...

    I try to deflect them, but they bring a lot of drama with them, especially when I turn them down. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" and all that. If I want to avoid the drama and trauma, I have to have *some* kind of story as to why I'm unavailable. Otherwise women take it *very* personally. I've gotten that in the past when I socialized with larger groups, to the point I had to leave the groups.

    Basically it's just easiest to say I'm off the market and unavailable. But I have to have a backstory for that: I'm gay? I'm asexual? I'm MGTOW? I'm secretly married, but my wife isn't around? Or just dress and behave so repulsively that women don't want anything to do with me? I don't want to appear like a freak, but I also don't want women pestering me endlessly for attention and then getting pissed when I deflect them.

    I've tried to just be blunt and say that I'm burnt out on woman after two divorces and need some time to myself. Because really, that's the truth of the matter. The MGTOW thing is secondary. Mainly I just can't be bothered to deal with women and their drama. But that's the worst possible thing you can say to older women. That's catnip to them. They just see me as a challenge at that point. They want to be the "special woman" that converts me back to marriage material. And they get doubly furious when it doesn't work out.

    I've got some stuff coming up later in August and then into autumn which will involve meeting a lot of new people and socializing with new groups. I've been a little bit on the fence about how I should present myself and my status with woman. I've been thinking about saying that I'm already in a relationship, but that it's long-distance (to explain the absence of a woman by my side). That's really the explanation that works best. (I know that because I've been in an LDR in real life and had to explain my status in society for real.) Some women still test me, but that story deflects most women without drama.

    But I hate to lie. So I was wondering if I could present the MGTOW explanation as a way to say that I was "off woman" for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't explain all the anti-feminist stuff; just that MGTOW was a "thing," and they could check it out themselves on-line if they want.

    But clearly, from the women's reactions here at TypoC, that's not an option. Women ask too many questions, I get pulled into long explanations, the feminism aspect come up (and it really is part of the problem: the sense of feminist entitlement and all that). And eventually women present an ultimatum: Either you have to be into women or you must be a misogynist or mentally ill. Go get therapy until you get better.

    But whatever. It's been a good experiment to try the MGTOW explanation here. I've got my answer as to how I present myself over the next few months. My story will be: My girlfriend "Liz" lives another state over. We only get together every couple weeks. But it's more than just a "friends with benefits" set-up. We've promised to be exclusive, and when she retires in a few years she intends to move up here... And so on, blah blah blah. That's really what women want to hear from a single, older male: Into women but unavailable.

    And who knows. If I find a woman who really seems different and worth checking out, I can always say that I suddenly broke up with "Liz." Never say never.

    Like I say, it was worth trying to be honest about the MGTOW thing here at TypoC, on-line. But I'm looking to avoid drama, and the MGTOW explanation only attracts hostility. Even you, kyuuei, say that you're a conscientious objector on feminism but still think I need therapy for not being interested in women. Women just aren't going to get it.

    As for any younger guys out there reading my posts: Take note. You probably think this stuff is funny. But you can't seal yourself away from the world. Older women are out there, and they'll want their "pound of flesh" from you. So you really do need to come up with some kind of song-and-dance to placate them, otherwise they'll just keep dogging you. And if you say you're not interested, they'll insult you and tell you that you need therapy. Like I say, lots of drama.

    Oh well, like I say, I've got my answer. Thanks for being understanding, kyuuei. You've been honest with me, and I appreciate it.
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  6. #1606
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    Well, thanks for being understanding, kyuuei. Sounds like you kinda get it.

    Anyway, it's been a useful experience to come here and be open about the MGTOW thing. At the MGTOW message board where I post, pretty much everyone says that you have to hide your MGTOW affiliation. Women just can't handle men who go MGTOW. They'll ask a lot of questions, and then they'll label you a nutcase or a freak when they hear the details. They just can't handle the idea that a guy isn't interested in relationships and sex and all that.

    So it was useful to try out that experience here. And sure enough, women asked a lot of questions and then told me I need to get therapy and work on myself.

    The thing is, a single older man has to say *something* when he socializes. As I said in an earlier post, women at my age are pretty aggressive when they see a prospect. As a man gets older, women get more aggressive and they come after you with all their baggage and drama. It's like being the hot chick in a crowd of horny teenage boys. They just hover around you, salivating.

    I try to deflect them, but they bring a lot of drama with them, especially when I turn them down. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" and all that. If I want to avoid the drama and trauma, I have to have *some* kind of story as to why I'm unavailable. Otherwise women take it *very* personally. I've gotten that in the past when I socialized with larger groups, to the point I had to leave the groups.

    Basically it's just easiest to say I'm off the market and unavailable. But I have to have a backstory for that: I'm gay? I'm asexual? I'm MGTOW? I'm secretly married, but my wife isn't around? Or just dress and behave so repulsively that women don't want anything to do with me? I don't want to appear like a freak, but I also don't want women pestering me endlessly for attention and then getting pissed when I deflect them.

    I've tried to just be blunt and say that I'm burnt out on woman after two divorces and need some time to myself. Because really, that's the truth of the matter. The MGTOW thing is secondary. Mainly I just can't be bothered to deal with women and their drama. But that's the worst possible thing you can say to older women. That's catnip to them. They just see me as a challenge at that point. They want to be the "special woman" that converts me back to marriage material. And they get doubly furious when it doesn't work out.

    I've got some stuff coming up later in August and then into autumn which will involve meeting a lot of new people and socializing with new groups. I've been a little bit on the fence about how I should present myself and my status with woman. I've been thinking about saying that I'm already in a relationship, but that it's long-distance (to explain the absence of a woman by my side). That's really the explanation that works best. (I know that because I've been in an LDR in real life and had to explain my status in society for real.) Some women still test me, but that story deflects most women without drama.

    But I hate to lie. So I was wondering if I could present the MGTOW explanation as a way to say that I was "off woman" for the foreseeable future. I wouldn't explain all the anti-feminist stuff; just that MGTOW was a "thing," and they could check it out themselves on-line if they want.

    But clearly, from the women's reactions here at TypoC, that's not an option. Women ask too many questions, I get pulled into long explanations, the feminism aspect come up (and it really is part of the problem: the sense of feminist entitlement and all that). And eventually women present an ultimatum: Either you have to be into women or you must be a misogynist or mentally ill. Go get therapy until you get better.

    But whatever. It's been a good experiment to try the MGTOW explanation here. I've got my answer as to how I present myself over the next few months. My story will be: My girlfriend "Liz" lives another state over. We only get together every couple weeks. But it's more than just a "friends with benefits" set-up. We've promised to be exclusive, and when she retires in a few years she intends to move up here... And so on, blah blah blah. That's really what women want to hear from a single, older male: Into women but unavailable.

    And who knows. If I find a woman who really seems different and worth checking out, I can always say that I suddenly broke up with "Liz." Never say never.

    Like I say, it was worth trying to be honest about the MGTOW thing here at TypoC, on-line. But I'm looking to avoid drama, and the MGTOW explanation only attracts hostility. Even you, kyuuei, say that you're a conscientious objector on feminism but still think I need therapy for not being interested in women. Women just aren't going to get it.

    As for any younger guys out there reading my posts: Take note. You probably think this stuff is funny. But you can't seal yourself away from the world. Older women are out there, and they'll want their "pound of flesh" from you. So you really do need to come up with some kind of song-and-dance to placate them, otherwise they'll just keep dogging you. And if you say you're not interested, they'll insult you and tell you that you need therapy. Like I say, lots of drama.

    Oh well, like I say, I've got my answer. Thanks for being understanding, kyuuei. You've been honest with me, and I appreciate it.
    Phew... I can understand that really, since being a female on deployment has the same sort of aggression from males. Needing time to yourself is alright too... Really, truly.. as much as lying feels icky.. I'd go with the LDR excuse. It's simple, people understand it, and usually it keeps everyone but the creepers away. And anyone you do happen to meet? Just tell them the truth then. Any person worth 'meeting' in your eyes will understand. I usually went with it when I was single because it had been true most of my adult life anyways, and also it quickly weeded out the creepers from the cool guys. Creepers try to snake into that, cool guys respect the boundary. It was like a shit-test that worked fairly well.

    I have to lie to my patients about religion all the time because they cannot fathom anyone not believing in Jesus... I just smile and nod, and say I'll keep them in my 'thoughts' when they ask me to pray for them, and I call the chaplain and explain what great people they are. I don't really feel bad about these smaller white lies because the reality is they don't care what I have going on, I don't care about their religion, and explaining anything won't change anything between our dynamics besides the occasional asshole that can't handle a non-religious person existing.
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  7. #1607
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Phew... I can understand that really, since being a female on deployment has the same sort of aggression from males. Needing time to yourself is alright too... Really, truly.. as much as lying feels icky.. I'd go with the LDR excuse. It's simple, people understand it, and usually it keeps everyone but the creepers away. And anyone you do happen to meet? Just tell them the truth then. Any person worth 'meeting' in your eyes will understand. I usually went with it when I was single because it had been true most of my adult life anyways, and also it quickly weeded out the creepers from the cool guys. Creepers try to snake into that, cool guys respect the boundary. It was like a shit-test that worked fairly well.

    I have to lie to my patients about religion all the time because they cannot fathom anyone not believing in Jesus... I just smile and nod, and say I'll keep them in my 'thoughts' when they ask me to pray for them, and I call the chaplain and explain what great people they are. I don't really feel bad about these smaller white lies because the reality is they don't care what I have going on, I don't care about their religion, and explaining anything won't change anything between our dynamics besides the occasional asshole that can't handle a non-religious person existing.
    You're right. I'm an atheist, and I'm familiar with telling little white lies and fudging the truth in order to keep peace in social settings.

    Of course, the difference with a story about a fake girlfriend is that people pry. They feel it's okay to ask about details, ask how you met, ask what it's like putting up with an LDR, etc. But whatever. I guess that's the price one pays to keep the peace. Like I say, I've been in an actual LDR previously and had to explain it socially. So I know what's required. I'll just prep a good story accordingly.

    I also dug out an old, plain, back-up wedding band from my first marriage. I'm thinking of putting it on my right (non-marriage) ring finger. It may seem like overkill, but I've definitely noticed that walking around without any jewelry on my hands these last 5-6 years is like having a target painted on my back. Older women look at older men's hands the same way that young men look at young women's cleavage. Sometimes I feel like saying to older women, "Eyes up here!"

    The ring wouldn't be on the marriage finger, but it should at least cause women to pause and ask. I envision conversations with female friends going like this:

    Friend: You have a ring on your right hand?
    Me: It's kind of a "going steady" ring. We're not engaged or anything, but my girlfriend wanted us to wear something to show that we're in a committed relationship. Just so that there are no misunderstandings.
    Friend: But it's a wedding band.
    Me: It's all I could find when "Liz" brought it up. But "Liz" was fine with it being a wedding band. She seemed to like it.
    Friend: I'm guessing that "Liz" wears the pants in your relationship.
    Me: Happy wife, happy life. But that works with girlfriends too.


    It may seem kind of silly to go to such lengths as wearing a fake ring, but people really do pry. When I was in a real LDR, some friends would poke and pry about my girlfriend, wanting details. Some even refused to believe that an LDR could be a serious relationship, and they would quiz me on it. So today, if I'm in a social scene, I know that people are going to want to hear about "Liz," invite me to bring her to events, etc. So it helps to have a seamless story, with the help of props if needed. Besides, a ring will remind *me* to keep my story the same with everyone. In a way, embarking on a lie of that magnitude is a big endeavor. I feel like I'm a gay guy 50 years ago who needs to marry a straight woman as a "beard" in order to pass in straight society.

    It would be a whole lot easier to tell the truth. But if I do that, then I'm just a "woman-hater in need of therapy." So I guess I have to prepare a whole song-and-dance about "Liz," the elusive girlfriend who never seems to be available to meet my friends. At least with "Liz," when the single older women lament, "Where have all the good men gone," I can just smile and shrug my shoulders. I'll be safely shacked up with "Liz," and it won't be my job to account for the comings and goings of all the single men in the world (as has been the case in the past).

    Oh well, that's life. No complaints, no regrets. I now know my place in the grand scheme of things; I just need to firm up my story and pick up a few props as needed. There was a time after my second divorce when I enjoyed all the attention coming from the women around me. And I thought I was pretty good at deflecting them and dodging their advances. But sooner or later the drama would always start up. Nowadays, I just want some way to shut women down before they even get started. If a little white lie will do the trick, that's fine with me. The main thing is not to get caught in the lie. People get pretty disappointed if they find out you're not who you said you were. Also, then I would be back to being the "woman-hater in need of therapy."

    Again, you've been helpful, kyuuei. Any other tips or suggestions on how to manage relationships with phantom partners?
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  8. #1608
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    Again, you've been helpful, kyuuei. Any other tips or suggestions on how to manage relationships with phantom partners?
    Make sure you deal with their phantom quirks, like occasionally having the ghostbusters come knocking on your door.
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    I think this thread is a bit of a cancer to be honest.

  10. #1610
    Expensive Handbasket Redbone's Avatar
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    @YUI

    It seems like you feel a lot of pressure from the expectations of others and are trying your best to get away from that. It can be frustrating when you are trying to walk your own path and other people are unhappy about the direction that may take for you. And try to make you change direction.

    I can get backing off, too. I was married for a little over 20 years, had an ugly divorce, and still have to deal with all of that. I find dealing with men (well...relationships) difficult at best. I think in the end, I am afraid of how ugly interaction between two people can become if one (or both) step to another person full of entitlements and expectations. If those are not met, then things can go really bad. And a good bit of people do absorb cultural expectations in relationships and when things don't roll that way, it may be interpreted as it not going right because the person isn't doing what they are supposed to make the relationship work. Then the pressure to change starts...under the guise of "improving" things.

    I think most people mean no real harm and that this is just what they believe what will make them happy. They do want a relationship that makes them feel good and works. And it can be hard to resist ideas of how men and women supposedly are and the formulas/behaviors that supposedly bring success. But I believe it may be good to question whether a person really wants to be with someone else or if that person just happens to be fulfilling a roll in someone else's play about how to have a mate and be happy.
    Likes Lethe liked this post

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