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  1. #1481
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Do you seriously not believe that any man's sports team could not whipe the floor with the female equivalent? You need statistics for this?
    Sometimes the men will win and sometimes the women will. When the women win, whiny, pathetic guys will deride them, accuse them of cheating and use whatever tactics they can to smear them. The women therefore can't win, but it won't be because of the sportsmen stopping them.

    Now, back to jobs. Are there "men's jobs" which are not sports related? Oh wait, there's loads. Which makes the sports argument irrelevant. Well, it's been fun arguing this with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke O View Post
    Sometimes the men will win and sometimes the women will. When the women win, whiny, pathetic guys will deride them, accuse them of cheating and use whatever tactics they can to smear them. The women therefore can't win, but it won't be because of the sportsmen stopping them.

    Now, back to jobs. Are there "men's jobs" which are not sports related? Oh wait, there's loads. Which makes the sports argument irrelevant. Well, it's been fun arguing this with you.
    Again you have a sad view of men to think that men would deride women if they beat them in a game. Of course there are "men's jobs" that are not sports related I just used sports because you can easily compare performance among both genders. Most people by common sense and knowledge know that male athlete would 9 times out of 10 beat the female athlete at their own game.

  3. #1483
    Super Ape Luke O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Again you have a sad view of men to think that men would deride women if they beat them in a game. Of course there are "men's jobs" that are not sports related I just used sports because you can easily compare performance among both genders. Most people by common sense and knowledge know that male athlete would 9 times out of 10 beat the female athlete at their own game.
    I can't remember the last time I saw a job advertisement which asked for "must be able to kick a ball into a net" or "must be able to run exactly 100 metres really, really fast".
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  4. #1484

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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    If you are an instigator of physical violence than you deserve what's coming to you, sounds about right to me.
    Indeed. What I find most egregious about the other hosts in the first clip is how they accuse Whoopi of "blaming the victim" whenever a woman is hit in retaliation to hitting a man. At no point did they acknowledge that a woman should never hit a man or that people should never hit other people, as if women should have free reign to assault men as they please. They don't even take into account other factors, such as the size/strength of the man or the size/strength of the woman, fighting experience, circumstances, etc. To them, it's strictly a matter of gender. These sorts of double-standards are what causes a backlash against that which is perceived as "feminism" because many of the women making these claims identify as feminists.

  5. #1485
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Just because there are a small minority of christian families that are raising their daughters to be housewives doesn't imply that this is the case for the vast majority of families and institutions who are encouraging and giving scholarships to women to go to school and particularly find a career in stem. Our sexist gynocentric laws is giving females special privileges over men yet you feminists still complain and fail to see the limitations of what females want/can do. Women graduate at 60% to 40% men in university and collages and yet there is still a lack of women in stem fields. The college system is systematically set up to put more women in university and yet the majority choose to become indoctrinated in gender studies programs to complain that they are 60 thousands dollars in debt, and can't find a job instead of holding a degree in a study that will actually find them a job. Not only is a detriment to the individual but to society as well
    Well, you implied that no one raises daughters to be housewives any longer. I don't need to show that the majority does it to prove my point. A minority will do, and it's a more significant minority in some parts of the country than you are crediting. I agree about students taking on excessive debt, but this is unrelated to gender bias. It would be solved by moving to a university funding model more like what exists in Europe, but that is another discussion. We have not yet seen the true limits of what women want and can do, because we are still in the process of removing artificial limits. Check back when your grandchildren are entering the workforce.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Throughout history women were much more respected and valued than men, if you look at the majority of societies it was always the men who had the responsibility of providing for the family including the women and her children. It was always the men who were encouraged and sacrificed their lives to defend their country. With rights comes responsibility, you can't just obtain certain rights without having any responsibility however this notion of responsibility and rights towards women soon faded as women were given the right to vote without having to serve the draft unlike men.
    As I already mentioned, feminists understand the connection between rights and responsibilities. The historical treatment of women you describe is suitable for children and the mentally infirm, not thinking, feeling adults, male or female. Whether you are willing to acknowledge centuries of restrictions on women, or prefer to view it as centuries of female freeloading, the situation needs to change, and is finally doing so. Men deserve a break, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Please provide me scientific evidence of our behavior being heavily influenced by social constructs as if it's the only thing that shapes us a human being. We know for a fact that the human species is sexually dymorphic which further explains why traditional gender roles aren't actually a product of socialization but rather a product of evolution and the survival of the species. A species cannot survive without the women in the group being protected from dangers and external threats thus they must be provided and protected in the best possible way by the males. Chivalry in males in long ingrained in their DNA, it has only been in the last 50 or years of feminist and gynocentric laws that have changed this basic dynamic between men and women.
    I do not have to show that social constructs are the only influence on our behavior, just that it is a significant one. That has amply been shown by others. Just compare the fraction of university students who are female today with that same fraction 100 years ago. It is over an order of magnitude larger. Why? Have women somehow changed biologically in 100 years? Are thousands of women being forced to attend university now? The only difference is the reduction in social constructs that steered women away from a university education: first, outright exclusion, then lingering traditions about women's role in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Again you have a sad view of men to think that men would deride women if they beat them in a game. Of course there are "men's jobs" that are not sports related I just used sports because you can easily compare performance among both genders. Most people by common sense and knowledge know that male athlete would 9 times out of 10 beat the female athlete at their own game.
    The closest you are going to come to a true "men's job" is one where the actual larger size and greater brute force strength of the average male come into play, say longshoremen or nightclub bouncers. This will take care of itself by continuing to hire whoever best meets the standards. If it turns out to be 90% men, then so be it. That is a real limitation, not an artificial one. The 10% of women who are interested and can do the job should not be excluded on that basis. Similarly, there is good evidence that women's physique is more suited to flying fighter jets, due to how they hold up under G forces, etc., plus their lighter weight reduces overall total system weight, an important concern. But I likewise wouldn't advocate barring men from these jobs just for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    @Coriolis I greatly admire your patience.
    Someone needs to set the record straight for others reading the thread.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  6. #1486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Well, you implied that no one raises daughters to be housewives any longer. I don't need to show that the majority does it to prove my point. A minority will do, and it's a more significant minority in some parts of the country than you are crediting. I agree about students taking on excessive debt, but this is unrelated to gender bias. It would be solved by moving to a university funding model more like what exists in Europe, but that is another discussion. We have not yet seen the true limits of what women want and can do, because we are still in the process of removing artificial limits. Check back when your grandchildren are entering the workforce.
    You can't just site an instance of that happening to a very small group of people and account it for the majority group of people which was what I was implying. "No one" in the sense that the vast majority of people aren't raising their daughters to be house wives. Actually we have seen the true limits to what women can do, because no one is stopping them from doing what they want to do and if you don't believe this is the case I encourage you to name a right a man has that a women doesn't have in today's society, because I can name quite a few rights that women have that men don't have. The right to vote without being required into the draft is one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    As I already mentioned, feminists understand the connection between rights and responsibilities. The historical treatment of women you describe is suitable for children and the mentally infirm, not thinking, feeling adults, male or female. Whether you are willing to acknowledge centuries of restrictions on women, or prefer to view it as centuries of female freeloading, the situation needs to change, and is finally doing so. Men deserve a break, too.
    There have been no centuries of restrictions based on women that were socially constructed. It's funny how you put it "men need a break too" when you imply that the restrictions based on women are restrictions put on by men themselves. We know this isn't the case since historically it was men who protected and provided for their women and suffered because of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I do not have to show that social constructs are the only influence on our behavior, just that it is a significant one. That has amply been shown by others. Just compare the fraction of university students who are female today with that same fraction 100 years ago. It is over an order of magnitude larger. Why? Have women somehow changed biologically in 100 years? Are thousands of women being forced to attend university now? The only difference is the reduction in social constructs that steered women away from a university education: first, outright exclusion, then lingering traditions about women's role in life.
    It isn't even a significant one I would say that traditional social constructs are actually quite outdated and discouraged as we are seeing such a giant push from feminists. It's obvious that the reason why more females are going to school to get educated is because they are able to acquire careers and fields of work that are low risk and don't require physical labor. You can thank technology for that, technology that was invented and created mainly by men and modern civilization, not a change in social constructs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The closest you are going to come to a true "men's job" is one where the actual larger size and greater brute force strength of the average male come into play, say longshoremen or nightclub bouncers. This will take care of itself by continuing to hire whoever best meets the standards. If it turns out to be 90% men, then so be it. That is a real limitation, not an artificial one. The 10% of women who are interested and can do the job should not be excluded on that basis. Similarly, there is good evidence that women's physique is more suited to flying fighter jets, due to how they hold up under G forces, etc., plus their lighter weight reduces overall total system weight, an important concern. But I likewise wouldn't advocate barring men from these jobs just for that.
    Flying fighter jets is still a high risk job, most women wouldn't want to get into that occupation either and no, no one is telling them otherwise it is a personal preference of most women to find a job that is safe and low risk. Surprise feminists us "misogynists" know more about women and female nature than you do.

  7. #1487
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    You are not answering the specific points I am making, but rather are setting up strawmen. If this is the best you can do, this will be my last post in our discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    You can't just site an instance of that happening to a very small group of people and account it for the majority group of people which was what I was implying. "No one" in the sense that the vast majority of people aren't raising their daughters to be house wives. Actually we have seen the true limits to what women can do, because no one is stopping them from doing what they want to do and if you don't believe this is the case I encourage you to name a right a man has that a women doesn't have in today's society, because I can name quite a few rights that women have that men don't have. The right to vote without being required into the draft is one of them.
    You are the only one mentioning a majority of girls still being raised to be housewives. As for rights, women have the same rights to most things as men, just like Blacks had the right to vote even before the civil rights era. The draft and military service overall is indeed one remaining area of inequity. I and many feminists want this corrected. (In fact, I wrote an entire essay on this in middle school.) In fact, I would like to see universal national service, to include non-military options for both men and women. But again, that is another discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    There have been no centuries of restrictions based on women that were socially constructed. It's funny how you put it "men need a break too" when you imply that the restrictions based on women are restrictions put on by men themselves. We know this isn't the case since historically it was men who protected and provided for their women and suffered because of it.
    You are clearly ignorant of history in this case. Men like women know that rights and responsibilities go hand in hand. Men have been unwilling to share rights with women, even at the cost of keeping the lion's share of responsibilities. Men shouldn't always have to be the ones to protect, provide, defend, and do the dirty, thankless work (which, by the way, women have done plenty of over the years, too). If you personally favor this division of labor, you are welcome to find a woman who will go along with it. To espouse it as the norm, or a desirable state of affairs for the majority, is simply ignorant and archaic.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    It isn't even a significant one I would say that traditional social constructs are actually quite outdated and discouraged as we are seeing such a giant push from feminists. It's obvious that the reason why more females are going to school to get educated is because they are able to acquire careers and fields of work that are low risk and don't require physical labor. You can thank technology for that, technology that was invented and created mainly by men and modern civilization, not a change in social constructs.
    You have finally got one right: traditional social constructs are indeed outdated, and are slowly going by the wayside due to the diligent and persistent actions of women and men who value equality of opportunity. More women are attending university because more of them see a life for themselves beyond homemaking, and have less pressure to do otherwise. The spectrum of what they are studying is shifting as well. Technology is important, but not in the way you describe. For generations, a university degree has been a virtual guarantee against having to do physically hard and risky work, for men as well. Just witness the draft exemptions during previous wars for (male) university students, at least those in certain majors.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Flying fighter jets is still a high risk job, most women wouldn't want to get into that occupation either and no, no one is telling them otherwise it is a personal preference of most women to find a job that is safe and low risk. Surprise feminists us "misogynists" know more about women and female nature than you do.
    The odds of losing one's life in a modern fighter jet are probably much lower than the odds of losing one's life in childbirth until recent generations. Your idea of risk (and reward) needs to be recalibrated.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #1488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You are not answering the specific points I am making, but rather are setting up strawmen. If this is the best you can do, this will be my last post in our discussion.
    Good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You are the only one mentioning a majority of girls still being raised to be housewives. As for rights, women have the same rights to most things as men, just like Blacks had the right to vote even before the civil rights era. The draft and military service overall is indeed one remaining area of inequity. I and many feminists want this corrected. (In fact, I wrote an entire essay on this in middle school.) In fact, I would like to see universal national service, to include non-military options for both men and women. But again, that is another discussion.
    What are you talking about? I said the majority of women aren't being raised as housewives and you named a specific example of someone you knew as if it was norm, which it isn't at all. The draft is the most obvious area of inequality that feminists hide behind a rug every chance they get. Other examples of inequality is the right to have an abortion without the man's say in the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You are clearly ignorant of history in this case. Men like women know that rights and responsibilities go hand in hand. Men have been unwilling to share rights with women, even at the cost of keeping the lion's share of responsibilities. Men shouldn't always have to be the ones to protect, provide, defend, and do the dirty, thankless work (which, by the way, women have done plenty of over the years, too). If you personally favor this division of labor, you are welcome to find a woman who will go along with it. To espouse it as the norm, or a desirable state of affairs for the majority, is simply ignorant and archaic.
    I think you are the one who is ignorant here, the right to vote at the time wasn't just given to men it was given to anyone who owned property. So if you were a man and you didn't owned private property you weren't allowed to vote. In comparison to men at the time most women weren't concerned with property rights, a women's concern and responsibility was childbirth. This isn't due to a social construction like you bigot feminists think but rather a survival tactic in which each gender shared their responsibilities and worked together to raise a family and survive. What men should and shouldn't do is irrelevant the fact of the matter is people did what they did in order to survive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You have finally got one right: traditional social constructs are indeed outdated, and are slowly going by the wayside due to the diligent and persistent actions of women and men who value equality of opportunity. More women are attending university because more of them see a life for themselves beyond homemaking, and have less pressure to do otherwise. The spectrum of what they are studying is shifting as well. Technology is important, but not in the way you describe. For generations, a university degree has been a virtual guarantee against having to do physically hard and risky work, for men as well. Just witness the draft exemptions during previous wars for (male) university students, at least those in certain majors.
    Yes traditional social constructs are outdated and aren't used anymore because of technology not your phony feminist ideals, yet women still choose jobs in the social sciences. Of course feminists can't handle this truth as women are still being "oppressed" by the patriarchy which is why there is a lack of them in stem fields.-bullshit. A university degree during the early 1900's wasn't as easy to get as it is today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The odds of losing one's life in a modern fighter jet are probably much lower than the odds of losing one's life in childbirth until recent generations. Your idea of risk (and reward) needs to be recalibrated.
    It seems like your brain can't distinguish between a task that unnecessary for survival vs a task that is necessary for survival. Childbirth is a necessary task for the survival of the species it was worth the sacrifice for a women to risk her life in doing so. Flying a fighter jet is not necessary for survival thus a women carrying out this task would be not worth the risk/reward benefit.

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