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  1. #1441
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    You gotta admire this woman for not wanting feminism:


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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    You gotta admire this woman for not wanting feminism:

    ...why admire someone who doesn't understand what feminism is?
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  3. #1443
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    You gotta admire this woman for not wanting feminism:

    Yeah have to say, what I said above goes for all people declaring a strong 'stance'. They tend to be narrow, attempting to be all encompassing/clever/strong, poorly thought out incomplete statements for shock value. Cart before the horse, does no one any good.

    That one is pretty obvious in really what I would call its ignorance, but there are many online that are more subtle- and those are the ones that really lead to misconception.
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  4. #1444
    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serenesam View Post
    You gotta admire this woman for not wanting feminism:

    I suspect this woman is in college and being subjected to some harsh propaganda about feminism that she disturbs her greatly. As such, she is merely reacting in the mode of those harassing her. Some people are just so dogmatic and religious in their devotion to new ideologies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archilochus
    The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one.
    And I am not a hedgehog......

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    Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers" not "blessed are the conflict avoiders.....

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  5. #1445
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Here is the question I ask myself: how is this flexibility is going to change society?

    Essentially, women are becoming more like men, but men are not becoming more like women.

    The sexes are competing more and more for the same kinds of work, but the number of jobs available for people isn't rising at the same rate. This is leading to higher unemployment, and it seems that men will disproportionately be affected in the future. Also, while very few men are interested in a traditional female role, the inverse is happening quite often, which means the average fertility of Western women has already lowered to unsustainable levels. The tendency to start families later is also leading to more children being born with genetic disorders.
    I hope that ultimately the flexibility changes society such that more people are more comfortable with their lifestyle choices and have fewer regrets. I hope that if it turns out, for instance, that more women than men continue to stay home with children, that will be because they really want to do that, rather than that they are forced into it by expectations. It would also be good for homemakers of either gender to be equal partners in family decisions, and for their economic contribution to the family and to the community to be understood and respected.

    I hope another of the changes is for men and women to feel free to be themselves, whether that is exhibiting inherent characteristics and preferences traditionally associated with the opposite sex, or participating in activities or professions historically favored by the opposite sex. A man who stops trying to suppress "feminine" traits is not becoming like a woman, he is allowing himself to be his true self.

    In some industries, jobs are going unfilled, largely due to lack of candidates with the necessary training and education. One way to address this is outreach activities directed at demographic groups underrepresented in these fields. I see more of a shift in workplace demographics, then, where the representation of women in traditionally male fields increases, the representation of males in traditionally female fields increases, and salaries even out somewhat.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I disagree with this sentiment for the most part. I will admit, however, that the choices added by birth control technology have led to a great deal of moral confusion. There is a huge difference between using birth control to choose to not have (another?) child that one cannot afford to raise, and using birth control to allow oneself to follow a lifestyle of meaningless sexual relationships. Both sexes are following this latter path, by the way: this isn't "feminism", it's just pursuing base needs without growing up emotionally. Modern "feminism", this "third-wave" brand, is simply just an overall classification of women's needs and desires in this "free sex" world.
    I don't see such a strong moral dimension to it all. As much blame for lower birth rates and childless adults can be placed on the nature of the traditional workplace as on birth control itself. More women (and men) would have more children if it were not still so difficult to reconcile with a career or profession in many cases.

    I don't think we can call everyone who uses birth control to prevent or limit conception irresponsible, a failure as an adult, or intent on "a lifestyle of meaningless sexual relationships". Raising children is not the only adult contribution most people make. Many people make significant contributions through their career, a volunteer activity, or other commitments. Sexual relationships are far from the main focus of their life. For some, like celibate religious, sex is not in the picture. Does one need to abstain entirely to get credit for one's many other adult contributions?

    So now we have a subset of men and women who take advantage of birth control to play the field, never bothering to settle down. In previous generations, this option was mostly available to men, who either indulged with hookers, or left a trail of women whose lives were often ruined by their moment of indiscretion. I do wish people would take relationships more seriously, and understand that there is far more to life than sex to begin with. Still, I would not return to the asymmetry of previous generations, when judgment and consequences fell disproportionately on women. Make it easier to raise a family while holding a job, and I bet this behavior will subside somewhat.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  6. #1446
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Some people are just so dogmatic and religious in their devotion to new ideologies.
    Like some people in this thread for example.

  7. #1447
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    True gender equality.
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  8. #1448
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post

    I have my opinions about particular feminist arguments, that I've stated elsewhere. That's a different issue. The main thing I'm trying to make clear is that feminism isn't causing any of this. Women aren't causing any of these. This thread is really complaining about things that are an effect of reliable birth control technology. Not that the complaints are unmerited: the injustices that some feminists advocate should be pointed out. In doing so however, we need to take care that we are complaining about injustices, and not about women.
    This is true in the sense that technology has allowed "feminism" to happen, in that traditional gender roles of female preservation and male disposability are becoming obsolete. Feminists still want all the female benefits of traditionalism aka male chivalry, societies protection a women's right for childbirth etc without any of the responsibility. This is why you don't ever see feminists complaining about the lack of women in the military, trades or construction jobs in comparison to men. Evolutionary speaking our species has always been designed to put the benefits and safety of the female first before the mans thus the rise of gynocentrism and feminism in this day and age. Our society today is very hostile and oppressive towards men, both sexes are stepping away from marriage and relationships altogether women today have become much different in comparison to women of past generations. Feminist ideology and propaganda has allowed women to get away with far more than should have which ultimately leads to entitlement, narcissism and resentment towards the opposite sex.

  9. #1449
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    This is true in the sense that technology has allowed "feminism" to happen, in that traditional gender roles of female preservation and male disposability are becoming obsolete. Feminists still want all the female benefits of traditionalism aka male chivalry, societies protection a women's right for childbirth etc without any of the responsibility. This is why you don't ever see feminists complaining about the lack of women in the military, trades or construction jobs in comparison to men. Evolutionary speaking our species has always been designed to put the benefits and safety of the female first before the mans thus the rise of gynocentrism and feminism in this day and age. Our society today is very hostile and oppressive towards men, both sexes are stepping away from marriage and relationships altogether women today have become much different in comparison to women of past generations. Feminist ideology and propaganda has allowed women to get away with far more than should have which ultimately leads to entitlement, narcissism and resentment towards the opposite sex.
    Actually, I have seen feminist groups complaining about such things, exactly because they understand the connections between rights and responsibilities. They also see military service and skilled trades as valuable opportunities too long closed off to women. There are even apprenticeship programs that target women, especially those who have been laid off from more traditional female jobs. I don't know any feminists who expect chivalry from men, though most advocate courtesy on everyone's part. Finally, I'm not sure what you mean by the "right for childbirth", or what childbirth without responsibility would even look like. Women are not being denied the right to bear children. They are simply and all too often expected to choose between that and other pursuits, in a way that men are not. It is this unfairness that needs to end, and we have made some significant inroads in this regard.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  10. #1450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Actually, I have seen feminist groups complaining about such things, exactly because they understand the connections between rights and responsibilities. They also see military service and skilled trades as valuable opportunities too long closed off to women. There are even apprenticeship programs that target women, especially those who have been laid off from more traditional female jobs. I don't know any feminists who expect chivalry from men, though most advocate courtesy on everyone's part. Finally, I'm not sure what you mean by the "right for childbirth", or what childbirth without responsibility would even look like. Women are not being denied the right to bear children. They are simply and all too often expected to choose between that and other pursuits, in a way that men are not. It is this unfairness that needs to end, and we have made some significant inroads in this regard.
    Really? because I've never seen a single feminist complain about aquireing all the dirty and dangerous jobs men do in society. The fact that there are apprenticeship peograms that target women just goes to show you how privliged women are in western society and that their lack of ability to perform these tasks isn't due to sexism. I'm talking about the right to abortion without a man's say. What is unfair about women choosing to have a child or not when women are biologically designed to have children?

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